[XML-DEV Mailing List Archive Home] [By Thread] [By Date] [Recent Entries] [Reply To This Message]

Re: CCTS NDR tools for generation of schemas

• From: "Stephen Green" <stephengreenubl@g...>
• To: "bryan rasmussen" <rasmussen.bryan@g...>, "XML Developers List" <xml-dev@l...>
• Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2007 16:29:52 +0100

Hi Bryan

To my understanding of CCTS, having just one possible NDR is against
the spirit of CCTS - completely against it. CCTS should be implementation
technology agnostic - that's one of the main tenets behind it's very concept.

But I can sympathise with wanting to 'outsource' effectively the XML know-how.
It takes so much time to aquire :-) - as my comparative ignorance compared
to your knowledge of the W3C specs attests :-(

Nevertheless there are some products and technologies which don't like
complex schemas such as those which want a standalone schema - no imports.
The idea that these are excluded from CCTS implementation would I think be
very unfortunate to some minds behind CCTS and seems to betray the promises
it made if CCTS does now go along with this idea.

Still, I only know all this second hand so I'd better shut up :-)

All the best

-- 
Stephen Green

Partner
SystML, http://www.systml.co.uk
Tel: +44 (0) 117 9541606

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=matthew+22:37 .. and voice


On 26/04/07, David Carver <d_a_carver@y...> wrote:
> bryan rasmussen wrote:
> > hi,
> > someone I'm working with will soon be arguing for wholesale adoption
> > of the CCTS NDR and using as their argument that users will be able to
> > generate schemas just by writing models as opposed to having to deal
> > with the complexity of schemas.
> >
> > This seems pretty wrong headed to me, but I must admit I am not
> > knowledgeable enough about CCTS NDR and the modelling thereof to know
> > how advanced any applications for doing this modelling are. I am going
> > to assume not really too advanced.
> >
> Bryan, there is at least one tool that will generate most of the CCTS
> NDR, but it generates a narrowed profile of the NDR for XML, not the
> full selection.   You can take a look at GEFEG FX, and make your own
> opinions on how well it does.
>
> Unfortunately, as more tools come out I think this will be the case, in
> that they will generate profiles of the NDR instead of supporting all
> the rules.
>
> > An especial quibble I have is, yes it may generate schemas from models
> > but will schemas generated from models be able to work in a broad
> > cross section of processors. It seems somewhat wrong headed to expect
> > automatic execution of schemas from models when processors for schemas
> > often have a lot of incompatibilities.
> >
> The main compatibility problem that you may experience is in how imports
> and includes and namespaces are supported.  Also, any tool that
> generates schema should at the minimum test the schemas it genrates
> against the most widely used schema parsers.  Unfortunately, most tools
> just generate the schema and say that it works.
>
> > I am also more apt to think that writing code is preferable to
> > generating code, partially caused by the experience I have that making
> > the models is as complicated as writing the code in a lot of
> > instances.
> >
> I tend to agree, as I've taken an agile aproach to working with
> schemas.   I tend to use UML and other modeling tools as more of a proof
> of concept design, and then write unit tests and schemas to implement
> that design.   In a data driven modeling world I think we are still a
> long way off from truely realizing Model Driven Development, unless you
> have the ability in a tool to tweak the way the Platform Specific Model
> is generated, you will always be at the mercy of how the tool authors
> profiled their platform specific implementation.
>
> Even what is modeled, may not be the best way to implement in the real
> world.   What looks good in a diagram may have performance issues when
> implemented.
>
> Dave
>
>
>
>
> > Cheers,
> > Bryan Rasmussen
> >
> > _______________________________________________________________________
> >
> > XML-DEV is a publicly archived, unmoderated list hosted by OASIS
> > to support XML implementation and development. To minimize
> > spam in the archives, you must subscribe before posting.
> >
> > [Un]Subscribe/change address: http://www.oasis-open.org/mlmanage/
> > Or unsubscribe: xml-dev-unsubscribe@l...
> > subscribe: xml-dev-subscribe@l...
> > List archive: http://lists.xml.org/archives/xml-dev/
> > List Guidelines: http://www.oasis-open.org/maillists/guidelines.php
> >
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
>
> XML-DEV is a publicly archived, unmoderated list hosted by OASIS
> to support XML implementation and development. To minimize
> spam in the archives, you must subscribe before posting.
>
> [Un]Subscribe/change address: http://www.oasis-open.org/mlmanage/
> Or unsubscribe: xml-dev-unsubscribe@l...
> subscribe: xml-dev-subscribe@l...
> List archive: http://lists.xml.org/archives/xml-dev/
> List Guidelines: http://www.oasis-open.org/maillists/guidelines.php
>
>

• Follow-Ups:
  • Re: CCTS NDR tools for generation of schemas
    • From: David Carver <d_a_carver@y...>

• References:
  • CCTS NDR tools for generation of schemas
    • From: "bryan rasmussen" <rasmussen.bryan@g...>
  • Re: CCTS NDR tools for generation of schemas
    • From: David Carver <d_a_carver@y...>