The XML-DEV email discussion forum was started nearly 10 years ago by Dr. Peter Murray-Rust and
Dr. Henry Rzepa of Imperial College (UK), covering XML development topics including XML standards,
XML specifications, and technical questions related to the eXtensible Markup Language.
The XML-DEV Blog brings the XML-DEV community into the blogging era, enabling XML developers
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Posted
11/1/2009 1:51:37 PM
On Sat, 2009-10-31 at 01:05 +0000, Fraser Goffin wrote:
> Thanks for the great comments thus far from every one.
>
> Several people have mentioned using BLOB or CLOB and indeed this is
> something we have done in the recent past. However, one of the key
> issues is that at least so
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
11/1/2009 11:55:41 AM
Interesting post, but I am not sure that "now is the time to talk of many
things".
Let me try to focus:
Proper software execution comes from the choice of appropriate
actions/technologies to match the driving requirements. But more
importantly, the greatest Wisdom, is to frame the dr
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/31/2009 9:42:27 AM
On Fri, Oct 30, 2009 at 2:50 AM, Fraser Goffin <goffinf@googlemail.com> wrote:
> IBM for example has pureXML. I haven't used these enough to know if they're just a thin
> veneer of whether they have real substance and depth, so again
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/31/2009 1:05:21 AM
Thanks for the great comments thus far from every one.
Several people have mentioned using BLOB or CLOB and indeed this is
something we have done in the recent past. However, one of the key
issues is that at least some the applications that will access the
data are either not XML capable and/or t
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/30/2009 6:12:17 PM
Hi,
Are you in the java world?
If so, check out jaxb and specifically hyperjaxb
https://hyperjaxb.dev.java.net/
JAXB allows you to take an XML document and load it into POJOs.
HyperJAXB connect those POJOs to the DB.
So, depending on the complexity of you app, all of your shredding
could
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/30/2009 11:47:37 AM
XML Prague 2010 Call for Papers
XML Prague 2010 is now welcoming submissions for presentations on the
following topics:
* XML lifecycle (diffing, merging, change tracking, etc.)
* Efficiency and performance in XML (verbosity, processing, overuse)
* Hypermedia in XML (SMIL, SVG animat
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/30/2009 11:42:35 AM
Choice - BLOB: Use a CLOB or BLOB column for the entire XML document. MySQL
has a maximum of 1 or 2 GIG there. Then process in memory using XSLT,
XQuery or what have you (Saxon 9). Extract index values to other columns as
necessary to make selective loading faster.
Choice - Package: Buy someth
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/30/2009 11:36:23 AM
[ANN] XML Prague 2010, March 13th & 14th ' Temporal XML'
XML Prague is a conference on XML for developers, markup geeks,
information managers,
and students, in its 5th year. To obtain more information or register
please visit the website
http://www.xmlprague.cz
-----------------------------
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/30/2009 12:49:10 AM
It surely is a little bit of overhead, but you can work with very large
xml files. Take a look at the XPath Accelerator encoding (so you can
also map XPath queries to SQL queries and enhance the whole thing with
staircase join and so on to gain performance benefits). Also tree
knowledge can be exp
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/29/2009 11:57:56 PM
> My particular interest is related to some work I'm currently
> engaged in. The basics are we receive XML messages from an
> external trading partner and process those messages,
> enriching and routing to a number of internal subscriber
> applications. One of these applications
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/29/2009 10:41:32 PM
I spent a little while evaluating DB-2 and Oracle XQuery implementations -
didn't go so far as to implement a full-blown system though, I guess because
nobody was holding a gun to my head.
The whole automated shredding approach strikes me as totally unworkable for
data with any complexity (thin
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/29/2009 9:20:32 PM
20091030002408.GW5522@w3.org" type="cite">
--> Liam Says ...
Yes, this is what I recommended in a book on the subject, years ago,
and is what generally works the best.
2) Put XML in "Blob" fields
--> solv
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/29/2009 9:20:23 PM
This list has been unusually quiet of late so I thought it might be an
opportune moment to ask for opinions on the subject of decomposing XML
into relational databases, often referred to as 'shredding'.
My particular interest is related to some work I'm currently engaged
in. The basics are we rec
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/29/2009 8:24:08 PM
On Thu, Oct 29, 2009 at 05:36:33PM -0400, David A. Lee wrote:
> Ron Bourret has some excellent references here
> http://www.rpbourret.com/xml/XMLDBLinks.htm#Relational
>
[...]
>
> I've been faced with this problem myself on multiple occasions where the
> organization is not ver
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/29/2009 5:36:33 PM
Ron Bourret has some excellent references here
http://www.rpbourret.com/xml/XMLDBLinks.htm#Relational
I took a 1 day class from him years ago in which he covered the topic
very well.
I suggest its too big a topic for an email discussion.
I've been faced with this problem myself on multiple occa
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/29/2009 4:06:03 PM
Xerces-J is also implementing XML Schema 1.1. Planning to have a preview release with partial support at the end of the year, though you could try out the current development stream [1] today if you're feeling adventurous.
[1] http://svn.apache.org/viewvc/xerces/java/branches/xml-schema-1.1-dev/
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/29/2009 3:37:33 PM
Altova is pleased to announce general
availability version 2010 of its MissionKit XML, database, and UML tools. v2010
is our MOST WANTED release and includes over 70 new customer-requested
features. Just a few of these include:
* Support
for WSDL 2.0, JSON, and SysML technologies
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/29/2009 6:46:19 AM
Go and take a look at Saxon EE (see
http://www.saxonica.com/feature-matrix.html )
Xmlizer
On Wed, Oct 28, 2009 at 3:57 PM, Olivier Rossel
<olivier.rossel@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> It seems that XML Schema provides many
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/28/2009 4:57:44 PM
It seems that XML Schema provides many new ways to validate XML documents.
I was wondering about the status of reference implementations?
Can we currently play with one of them?
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/23/2009 11:41:27 AM
Michael Kay schrieb:
>> So the correct assert would be inside the cd element:
>>
>> <xs:element name="cd">
>> <xs:complexType>
>> <xs:sequence>
>> <xs:element ref="pd" minOccurs="1" maxOccurs=&
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/23/2009 10:46:35 AM
Hello Michael,
thank you very much for the quick response.
Michael Kay schrieb:
>> <xs:complexType>
>> <xs:attribute name="start" type="xs:integer" use="required"/>
>> <xs:attribute name="end" type="xs:
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/23/2009 10:18:34 AM
>
> So the correct assert would be inside the cd element:
>
> <xs:element name="cd">
> <xs:complexType>
> <xs:sequence>
> <xs:element ref="pd" minOccurs="1" maxOccurs="unbounded"/>
>
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/23/2009 10:08:34 AM
Hello everyone,
since I'm trying to convert an XSD 1.0 + embedded Schematron schema into
an XSD 1.1 schema I stumbled upon an error regarding an assert element.
I tried to read all the questions raised (and answered) on this list
regarding this topic so far without success. So if there was a
di
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/23/2009 9:22:44 AM
> <xs:complexType>
> <xs:attribute name="start" type="xs:integer" use="required"/>
> <xs:attribute name="end" type="xs:integer" use="required"/>
> <xs:assert test="@start ge root
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/17/2009 8:49:24 AM
Fellow XML-Dev'ers,
OASIS has opened a 60-day public review of the new context/value
association for genericode file format:
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/codelist/200910/msg00005.html
Comments are most welcome and are sent to:
http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/comments/form.p
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/16/2009 11:03:22 AM
The Topic Maps Research and Applications conference
=======================================================
November 11-13 this year we are arranging the fifth TMRA conference in
Leipzig, Germany on all aspects of Topic Maps. This year's conference
theme is "Linked Topic Maps", emph
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/16/2009 10:24:56 AM
Olivier Rossel a écrit :
> that sounds very cool.
> The only missing part is how not to hardcode the values for in.xml and
> out.xml in the file, but provide them from the command line.
Use the SYSTEM module for that purpose:
<xcl:active-sheet
xmlns:xcl="http://ns.inria.org
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/16/2009 10:01:43 AM
that sounds very cool.
The only missing part is how not to hardcode the values for in.xml and
out.xml in the file, but provide them from the command line.
On Friday, October 16, 2009, Philippe Poulard
<philippe.poulard@sophia.inria.&#x
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/16/2009 9:45:16 AM
Olivier Rossel a écrit :
> philippe,
> could you please provide a small example (command line, or java code
> snippet) about how to
> print a self contained document from a document that contains some xincludes?
Hi Olivier,
-download RefleX and unzip
java -jar reflex-0.4.0.jar run in
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/15/2009 5:46:13 PM
philippe,
could you please provide a small example (command line, or java code
snippet) about how to
print a self contained document from a document that contains some xincludes?
On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 10:53 AM, Philippe Poulard
<philippe.poular
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/15/2009 10:53:58 AM
Olivier Rossel a écrit :
> short answer (from the support team of Altova) : it might exist in a
> future version.
xerces supports xinclude, but i don't know if xpointer() is supported
RefleX supports the xpointer() scheme as long as you use only XPath
expressions (don't use xpointer point
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/15/2009 10:47:58 AM
short answer (from the support team of Altova) : it might exist in a
future version.
On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 10:43 AM, Philippe Poulard
<philippe.poulard@sophia.inria.fr> wrote:
> Olivier Rossel a écrit :
>&g
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/15/2009 10:43:45 AM
Olivier Rossel a écrit :
> oh btw, if anyone has managed to activate the XInclude inlining
> mechanism of XmlSpy2009, please contact me privately.
> I am going mad with this tool!!!!
>
> Philippe, thank you again!
not sure it is supported, the xpointer() scheme appears to be "
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/15/2009 10:33:31 AM
oh btw, if anyone has managed to activate the XInclude inlining
mechanism of XmlSpy2009, please contact me privately.
I am going mad with this tool!!!!
Philippe, thank you again!
On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 10:20 AM, Olivier Rossel
<olivier.rossel@gmail
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/15/2009 10:20:03 AM
merci beaucoup :)
On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 8:58 AM, Philippe Poulard
<philippe.poulard@sophia.inria.fr> wrote:
> Hi Olivier,
>
> Olivier Rossel a écrit :
>>
>> -------
>
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/15/2009 8:58:53 AM
Hi Olivier,
Olivier Rossel a écrit :
> -------
> Short questions:
> -------
>
> 1: Can a XPointer point to a #text node?
I think yes, with the xpointer() scheme
> 2: Can I XInclude a #text node?
yes !
> -------
> Long explanation:
> -------
>
> Currently I h
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/14/2009 7:25:49 PM
-------
Short questions:
-------
1: Can a XPointer point to a #text node?
2: Can I XInclude a #text node?
-------
Long explanation:
-------
Currently I have such anXInclude:
<root xmlns:xi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XInclude">
<xi:include href="alternate.xml" parse=
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/14/2009 1:35:26 PM
It would really help if you show a concrete problem that you are
trying to solve. (Is there a problem?)
I am only guessing that you, like many find it painful to work with
DOM directly and want an abstraction layer.
In conclusion, I think all you need is a js library like jQuery. While
I love the
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/13/2009 9:55:17 AM
One other point: you need to know what the root element type is. Technically
this is not part of the document type definition (=DTD), rather it is part
of the document type declaration. The two are often (understandably)
confused.
Regards,
Michael Kay
http://www.saxonica.com/
http://twitter.com/
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/13/2009 8:29:25 AM
Dear Michael, Liam and Bjoern,
Thank you all. I appreciate your explanation.
Regards,
Yang
Quoting Michael Kay <mike@saxonica.com>:
> One other point: you need to know what the root element type is. Technically
> this is not par
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/13/2009 1:37:19 AM
* ycao5@scs.carleton.ca wrote:
> I have one question about XML DTD. In a paper, the authors say
>that DTD allows deriving all possible paths from the root to the
>leaves appearing in related XML documents. Does this statement
>c
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/12/2009 8:04:19 PM
On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 07:10:26PM -0400, ycao5@scs.carleton.ca wrote:
> I have one question about XML DTD. In a paper, the authors say that
> DTD allows deriving all possible paths from the root to the leaves
> appear
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/12/2009 7:10:26 PM
Hello everyone,
I have one question about XML DTD. In a paper, the authors say
that DTD allows deriving all possible paths from the root to the
leaves appearing in related XML documents. Does this statement
correct? Based on my knowledge, DTD may not contain all possible
elements in
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/9/2009 7:14:31 PM
Hi,
I am pleased to announce that a new major version of oXygen XML editor
is available from our website
http://www.oxygenxml.com
Version 11 of <oXygen/> XML Editor comes with exciting new features
covering both XML development and XML authoring like:
* XProc support
* integrated doc
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/9/2009 12:26:34 PM
For those working with XML vocabularies incorporating code lists,
identifier lists or other controlled vocabularies, there is a
hands-on training class on working with related OASIS technologies.
Accommodating instance-level metadata, list-level metadata and
value-level metadata is important w
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/9/2009 11:58:00 AM
Thomas Lord wrote:
> I am looking for a piece of software that I've
> come to suspect doesn't exist - but I thought
> I'd ask here as one way to double check.
JS+XSLT+MVC brings Freja in mind:
"Freja (Framework for Restful Javascript Applications) is not yet
another Ajax library
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/9/2009 10:38:16 AM
Thomas,The technology you are looking for is the core technology of our XML editor Xopus.We have built an XML DOM implementation with a live XSL transformation to HTML. All written in Javascript and XSLT.
Calling DOM methods will update the XML, we will validate changed XML against an XSD for good
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/8/2009 10:22:05 PM
>
> I want a second DOM around - an XML object. The HTML
> DOM for the page is related to the XML object either
> literally by an XSLT script or by something similar.
> When I change the *XML DOM* - I want the HTML transformed DOM
> to be incrementally updated.
>
...
>
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/8/2009 9:17:00 PM
On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 8:45 PM, Thomas Lord <lord@emf.net> wrote:
> On Thu, 2009-10-08 at 20:39 +0200, James Fuller wrote:
>> xcruciate.co.uk
>
> Thanks. No, that doesn't look like what I'm after
> unless I'm missing something.
>
> It
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/8/2009 8:39:18 PM
u might find the emerging xcruciate server something that addresses
some of your requirements
xcruciate.co.uk
J
On Thu, Oct 8, 2009 at 8:33 PM, Thomas Lord <lord@emf.net> wrote:
> I am looking for a piece of software that I've
> come to suspect
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/8/2009 3:43:50 PM
It's probably not the environment Thomas is looking for, but I believe
that InfoPath works this way. It uses XSLT (along with some extension
attributes) to define a round-trip mapping between stylesheet and source
tree. Those source-result bindings allow the processor to redraw part of
the res
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/8/2009 3:34:36 PM
rjelliffe@allette.com.au a écrit :
>> could you elaborate on that relax NG + schematron?
>> i can understand that chaining relax validation and schematron
>> processing is definitely possible.
>>
>> but as fa
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/8/2009 2:06:11 PM
On Thu, 2009-10-08 at 13:53 -0700, w3c@drrw.info wrote:
> Thomas,
> Once the content is loaded into the DOM in the browser content it is
> fully accessible by the Javascript.
Yes, of course. I want to have javascript programs
update the display with changes to
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/8/2009 1:53:58 PM
Thomas,Once the content is loaded into the DOM in the browser content it is fully accessible by the Javascript.But it sounds like you want something that reacts to incoming events too - again Javascript can send and receive SOAP messages / or REST / for example - and update accordingly.This is all
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/8/2009 12:14:08 PM
On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 6:28 PM, <w3c@drrw.info> wrote:
> Olivier and Lech,
> Thanks for your questions. Been a while since I've posted to the xml-dev
> list.
Really good to hear from you. Sometimes it's wothwhile to stir the
honet's nest alittle j
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/8/2009 11:45:55 AM
On Thu, 2009-10-08 at 20:39 +0200, James Fuller wrote:
> xcruciate.co.uk
Thanks. No, that doesn't look like what I'm after
unless I'm missing something.
It's critical to my requirements that this incremental
transform engine run in Javascript, in browsers.
Also, I don't see any incremental
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/8/2009 11:33:42 AM
I am looking for a piece of software that I've
come to suspect doesn't exist - but I thought
I'd ask here as one way to double check.
We are used to the idea of browsers receiving
XML, retrieving a linked XSLT program, and applying
that program to produce an HTML DOM for display.
I am wishing f
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/8/2009 7:58:45 AM
Lech,Be careful - CAM is one of these addictive technologies that you can suddenly find many interesting uses for - especially if you are an xslt aficionado - the cxf format opens the door to quickly adapt to suit...Enjoy, DW
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Content Assembly
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/8/2009 7:54:21 AM
Phillippe,Quick look at your syntax - looks to me you could either adapt your parser to use a CAM template as alternate input - particularly the cxf format - or simply write a xslt to morph CAM cxf into the asl format "under the covers".DW
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Content
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/8/2009 3:51:07 AM
> could you elaborate on that relax NG + schematron?
> i can understand that chaining relax validation and schematron
> processing is definitely possible.
>
> but as far as i understand, they are no integration effort between them.
Eddie Robertsson's software to embed Schematron ru
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/7/2009 5:32:24 PM
could you elaborate on that relax NG + schematron?
i can understand that chaining relax validation and schematron
processing is definitely possible.
but as far as i understand, they are no integration effort between them.
any resource about that?
On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 4:03 PM, Lech Rzedzicki
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/7/2009 3:03:02 PM
On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 1:53 PM, Olivier Rossel <olivier.rossel@gmail.com> wrote:
> after just a few minutes of reading:
> CAM looks great to enforce subtle non-trivial validation rules in your schema.
> but defining the
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/7/2009 2:53:45 PM
after just a few minutes of reading:
CAM looks great to enforce subtle non-trivial validation rules in your schema.
but defining the structure of the document directly from a sample XML
structure sounds extremely low-level.
in XSD, abstract structures such as complex types, groups, element
define
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/7/2009 11:54:37 AM
On 10/7/2009 10:03 AM, Lech Rzedzicki wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 7, 2009 at 1:53 PM, Olivier Rossel <olivier.rossel@gmail.com> wrote:
>> i hope some people from CAM are around so we can discuss those points.
>
&g
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/7/2009 10:28:49 AM
Olivier and Lech,Thanks for your questions. Been a while since I've posted to the xml-dev list.I think it is important firstly to determine what the role and purpose of each flavor of XML schema technology is, and hence what are the strengths and where you would want to match appropriately to
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/7/2009 9:47:01 AM
Excellent again. Many thanks Henry.
---
Stephen D Green
2009/10/7 Henry S. Thompson <ht@inf.ed.ac.uk>:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Stephen Green writes:
>
>
>> <example
>> count
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/7/2009 9:23:58 AM
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Stephen Green writes:
> <example
> count = integer
> size = (large | medium | small) : medium>
> Content: (all | any*)
> </example>
>
> Any pointers much appreciated. Is it OK to use it for non-W3C
> specifi
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/7/2009 8:22:16 AM
Wondered if anyone has looked into CAM - which claims a few advantages over other document validation approaches such as XSD, DTD. Haven't seen any comparison or claims w.r.t Relax NG or Schematron.
References:
http://wiki.oasis-open.org/cam
http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/library/x-cam/in
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/6/2009 10:05:17 PM
Excellent. Many thanks indeed, Michael.
Best regards
---
Stephen D Green
2009/10/6 Michael Kay <mike@saxonica.com>:
>> <example
>> count = integer
>> size = (large | medium | small) : medium>
>> Content: (all
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/6/2009 9:26:56 PM
> <example
> count = integer
> size = (large | medium | small) : medium>
> Content: (all | any*)
> </example>
>
> Any pointers much appreciated. Is it OK to use it for non-W3C
> specifications?
There are a number of similar notations, for example a sim
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/6/2009 4:29:24 PM
I've been trying to find out whether the convention used in
some W3C specs for representing XML is a published and
royalty-free convention and whether it has a name. I would
quite like to use it in some XML syntax specifications and
to be able to add a reference to say what convention is being
use
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/6/2009 2:34:36 PM
let's consider this example:
Person = (aName, anAdress)
aName = element name
anAddress = element address
you release that schema and it gets a huge success.
then; you want to append new statements in that schema, such as a
Person can have a phone number.
how to send those new statements to the
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/6/2009 10:41:58 AM
Oliver,I think the substitionGroup concept is what you require to treat the types polymorphically. Here substitutable types must be derived from the same base type (which may or may not be abstract). If you are validating via schema the enclosing type can reference the substitution group rather tha
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/5/2009 10:11:23 PM
I'm not really sure that open-world/closed-world is the right way to
characterize this question. I see that as being more about whether or not
one can assume one has access to all instances of a type (for example, all
employees) or only to selected instances.
It's true that derivation-by-extensio
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/5/2009 5:37:54 PM
Hi Oliver
Not sure I fully follow - could you provide the XML Schema types and syntax?
I am not sure if a and aa are types or elements - seems like you may mean
they are both?
Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: Olivier Rossel [mailto:olivier.rossel@gmail.&
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/5/2009 3:00:57 PM
On Sun, Oct 4, 2009 at 5:08 AM, Jim Tivy <jimt@bluestream.com> wrote:
> On this subject
>
> Is anyone aware of an open source or inexpensive java based Xml Diff that
> keeps going and can put the additions, deletions and changes inline i
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/5/2009 11:04:10 AM
Hello everyone.
Sorry to be 5 years late, but it is just today that I question myself
about derivation by extension and closed world assumption.
Please do not hesitate to comment the following points:
If I define "a" as being a sequence of b,c:
<a>
<b/>
<c/>
</a
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/5/2009 10:48:13 AM
Costello, Roger L. wrote:
> Hi Folks,
>
> Thanks Rick, Frank, and Alexander for your comments. The distinction between validation and verification has been illuminating. Wikipedia says that validation is, "Are you building the right thing?" and verification is, "Are you bui
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/5/2009 12:55:59 AM
On Sun, Oct 04, 2009 at 12:29:09PM +1000, rjelliffe@allette.com.au wrote:
[...]
> So definitely +1 for feathering, at least of paras and para lines. I don't
> know that I like the idea of "justify-by-modding" though: it
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/4/2009 12:29:09 PM
> The XSL-FO subgroup of the XSL Working Group has published a
> First Public Working Draft of
> "Design Notes for Extensible Stylesheet Language (XSL) 2.0",
> which contains initial and early work on XSL-FO 2.0.
>
> The document is at http://www.w3.org/TR/xslfo20/
...
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/4/2009 12:17:31 PM
> Hi Folks,
>
> Thanks Rick, Frank, and Alexander for your comments. The distinction
> between validation and verification has been illuminating. Wikipedia says
> that validation is, "Are you building the right thing?" and verification
> is, "Are you building the t
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/3/2009 9:08:50 PM
On this subject
Is anyone aware of an open source or inexpensive java based Xml Diff that
keeps going and can put the additions, deletions and changes inline in a
different namespace. I have used DeltaXml and like it, however the price is
up there.
Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: Adam Fli
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/2/2009 11:15:01 PM
The XSL-FO subgroup of the XSL Working Group has published a
First Public Working Draft of
"Design Notes for Extensible Stylesheet Language (XSL) 2.0",
which contains initial and early work on XSL-FO 2.0.
The document is at http://www.w3.org/TR/xslfo20/
It's very incomplete right now (
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/2/2009 1:49:56 PM
This might help:
https://ant-tasks.projects.openhealthtools.org/source/browse/*checkout*/ant-tasks/trunk/AntTask-XMLDiff/index.html
It's an Ant task using the the xml-unit library
We have a web page/jsp/jsf which highlights the differences but I don't
think that's part of this.
It works agains
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/2/2009 10:59:42 AM
On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 10:46 AM, Lech Rzedzicki <xchaotic@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 5:29 PM, James Fuller
> <james.fuller.2007@gmail.&
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/2/2009 10:26:16 AM
Hello Lech,Just to clarify - do your end users edit the XML directly? The reason I ask is whether your users would be happy to look at any raw XML diff (e.g. using the diff tooling in Eclipse which typically integrated with version control), or are you expecting to produce a nice diff. report that
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/2/2009 9:46:17 AM
On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 5:29 PM, James Fuller
<james.fuller.2007@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello Lech,
Hi Jim, good to hear from you.
> Another approach would be to use version control of one sort or
> another ...
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/2/2009 8:24:57 AM
Hi Folks,
Thanks Rick, Frank, and Alexander for your comments. The distinction between validation and verification has been illuminating. Wikipedia says that validation is, "Are you building the right thing?" and verification is, "Are you building the thing right?" I've recast
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/1/2009 6:29:13 PM
Hello Lech,
Another approach would be to use version control of one sort or
another ... eXist has a versioning extension and MarkLogic has
something akin to this in a library module (if u have access to
MarkLogic), otherwise any source control will give you what you want.
As with any data struct
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/1/2009 5:14:07 PM
On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 4:59 PM, Robin LaFontaine
<robin.lafontaine@deltaxml.com> wrote:
> Hi Lech,
>
> You may like to take a look at this:
> http://www.deltaxml.com/free/docbook/
> which diffs docbook
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/1/2009 5:09:35 PM
On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 4:40 PM, michael odling-smee
<mike.odlingsmee@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Funnily enough I have just started thinking about this for my own project
> with a similar use-case - i.e. understandi
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/1/2009 4:59:19 PM
Hi Lech,
You may like to take a look at this:
http://www.deltaxml.com/free/docbook/
which diffs docbook and in effect adds revision flags to the DocBook.
This may help you a bit in your consideration of how to structure your
schema.
Regards,
Robin
Lech Rzedzicki wrote:
> Hi all.
>
>
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/1/2009 4:40:19 PM
Hi Lech,Funnily enough I have just started thinking about this for my own project with a similar use-case - i.e. understanding the changes between two different baselines of an XML document or XML document set.
My high-level thoughts so far are:1.] Add suitable meta-data attributes (e.g. version/cr
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
10/1/2009 3:44:23 PM
Hi all.
I am at a fortunate stage where we are redesigning our XML schema so
that it fits our requirements better.
To give you an idea of the XML we're dealing with, it's loosely based
on DocBook and used for multi-channel publishing.
Some frequent scenarios include updating XML with new content,
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/30/2009 4:49:13 PM
On Sep 30, 2009, at 2:54 PM, Simon St.Laurent wrote:
> Frank Manola wrote:
>> and as I drive I also "validate" that
>
> I was wondering today, while driving at 65mph, what the consequences
> of merely well-formed driving would be.
I can see it now: "Sorry off
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/30/2009 4:48:14 PM
Simon St.Laurent wrote:
> I was wondering today, while driving at 65mph, what the consequences of
> merely well-formed driving would be.
I don't quite grok well-formed driving. I can understand driving a
well-formed car, or well-behaved driving, but for me a process doesn't
have a shap
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/30/2009 3:56:27 PM
Joel Bender wrote:
> Simon St.Laurent wrote:
>
>> I was wondering today, while driving at 65mph, what the consequences
>> of merely well-formed driving would be.
>
> I don't quite grok well-formed driving. I can understand driving a
> well-formed car, or well-behaved
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/30/2009 3:31:45 PM
On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 02:54:53PM -0400, Simon St.Laurent wrote:
> Frank Manola wrote:
>> and as I drive I also "validate" that
>
> I was wondering today, while driving at 65mph, what the consequences of
> merely well-formed driving would be.
I am told that in Qatar
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/30/2009 2:54:53 PM
Frank Manola wrote:
> and as I drive I also "validate" that
I was wondering today, while driving at 65mph, what the consequences of
merely well-formed driving would be.
--
Simon St.Laurent
http://simonstl.com/
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/30/2009 2:44:52 PM
On Sep 29, 2009, at 2:37 PM, Costello, Roger L. wrote:
>
> Hi Folks,
snip
>
> As I drive I validate that my speed doesn't exceed the posted limit.
>
>
> When entering the highway I validate that I am entering it in the
> correct direction.
>
>
> When exiting t
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/30/2009 1:10:01 PM
On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 04:37, Costello, Roger L. <costello@mitre.org> wrote:
> I wake up. Before entering the bathroom I validate that it is not occupied.
The door is old and rusty and sometimes doesn't open, even if someone
isn't in ther
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/30/2009 12:50:32 PM
>
> Hi Folks,
Hi Roger.
Are these really validation? Or are they verification (I know it has
other meanings too)? I think there is a difference.
The difference: invalidity is a symptom of system failure or error;
negative verification means the system is working OK, it just produces a
r
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/29/2009 2:37:18 PM
Hi Folks,
I wake up. Before entering the bathroom I validate that it is not occupied.
I walk down stairs and get a can of V-8 juice from the 'frig. Before I open it I validate that the expiration date hasn't passed.
Tonight there's a nice movie on TV. I set the VCR to record the show. I val
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/29/2009 2:36:47 PM
The first question I have in mind is how do we parse
this. This one example of Michaels has me a little confused: <xsl:sequence
select="xs:positiveInteger('5')"/>This is the proposal
for how to represent a typed atomic value. This is pretty
obs
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/29/2009 12:03:17 PM
The complete proceedings of "Balisage: The Markup Conference" 2009
and of the "International Symposium on Processing XML Efficiently"
are now freely available as part of the "Balisage Series on Markup
Technologies".
Go directly to them at:
Balisage 2009: h
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/29/2009 10:31:45 AM
Thanks Michael. In my mind, for this spec, ease of implementation
trumps borrowing from existing specs if you cant in fact reuse existing
technology.
e.g from what I can see
<xsl:sequence select="xs:positiveInteger('5')"/>
Has the advantage of borrowing from existing
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/29/2009 8:16:45 AM
I'm still working on this never fear !!
Micheal's suggesting is so compelling that I had to do some more
research. I still need to do some more :(
I'm going to start writing this up so I have a strawman to poke at
(hopefully not totally light fire to).
A couple suggestions/question
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/29/2009 12:09:13 AM
> From: Simon St.Laurent [mailto:simonstl@simonstl.com]
> Part of what I've always liked about XML is that you don't have to be a
> professional schema designer to walk up to it and get things done.
>
> And given a lot of the p
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/28/2009 10:24:41 PM
For a full blown standard it should have the things you
suggested.
Perhaps from a human factors point of view making
too comprehensive vocabulary can make the XML too involved, and
then people may not want to mark up to such a large extent and then
people&nb
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/28/2009 4:52:01 PM
Thanks Simon.
I concur. That's what I think too.
Dhruv
-----Original Message-----
From: Simon St.Laurent [mailto:simonstl@simonstl.com]
Sent: Saturday, September 26, 2009 9:14 PM
To: Michael Kay
Cc: Sharma, Dhruv; xml-dev&#
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/28/2009 4:51:18 PM
thanks for taking the time to provide input, Michael.
Going points as always. It is an honor to get your
input.
I have always liked your input and am a big fan of
Saxon.
I hope people do take in the direction as you
suggested.
As in the write up this was meant
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/28/2009 2:55:14 PM
I agree with both Simon and Michael.
Sometimes you have a simple spec that could be subsumed by a more expansive
spec but is not. For, example GPX for GPS interchanges vs GML as the more
expansive spec.
http://www.topografix.com/gpx.asp
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geography_Markup_Language
Ha
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/26/2009 10:55:11 PM
Designing a vocabulary that can be used across a whole
industry requires much more effort than a vocabulary that can be used in-house
by one small company. Your analysis doesn't seem to have considered menus from
many different establishments. Examples of things you don't
cover:
* dis
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/26/2009 9:14:08 PM
Michael Kay wrote:
> I'm afraid this looks more like a quick student exercise than a
> professional schema design informed by methodical data analysis.
Part of what I've always liked about XML is that you don't have to be a
professional schema designer to walk up to it and get things done
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/25/2009 12:43:14 PM
Hi,
This posting is about an XML menu application I designed for my parents
restaurant years ago.
The word document describes the design and the zip file contains the XML,
and stylesheet to convert menu ml into PDF, HTML, and a JavaScript
calculator.
&nbs
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/25/2009 10:01:15 AM
XMLmind is happy to announce the version 4.5 of XMLmind XML Editor.
_____________________________________________
XMLmind XML Editor Personal Edition 4.5 can be downloaded from
http://www.xmlmind.com/xmleditor/download.shtml
Professional Edition users, please upgrade using this form:
http://
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/24/2009 1:05:38 PM
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Want to learn more about rule technologies, applications and standards?
Want to discuss latest research results and developments?
Want to get in touch with the industry and research experts in rule-based
systems and techno
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/24/2009 9:26:10 AM
XMLmind is happy to announce the first release of
XMLmind DITA Converter.
XMLmind DITA Converter, which is open source software,
can be freely downloaded from:
http://www.xmlmind.com/ditac/download.shtml
________________________________________________
XMLmind DITA Converter v1.0 (September 23,
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/22/2009 1:49:17 AM
> Isn't there a desire in XDM to get away from the nitty-gritty XML syntax
> details and join the realm of programming languages and their data
> structures living in memory?
This sounds like you think some other serialization won't have syntactical
nitty-gritty!
If your idea is that t
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/21/2009 10:22:22 PM
Hey Amy,
I asked product management on availability of XSLTMark benchark application
and the official statement is:
It is no longer generally available.
Mit besten Gruessen / Best wishes,
Hermann Stamm-Wilbrandt
Developer, XML Compiler
WebSphere DataPower SOA Appliances
----------------------
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/21/2009 9:55:43 PM
>
> Does anyone happen to know whatever became of the XSLTMark
> benchmark application?
>
>
> Has it disappeared?
I believe it has disappeared. I have a copy and use it regularly (though it
has serious limitations as a benchmark), but I have no idea what the terms
and co
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/21/2009 6:46:36 PM
rjelliffe@allette.com.au schrieb:
>> Isn't there a desire in XDM to get away from the nitty-gritty XML
>> syntax details and join the realm of programming languages and their
>> data structures living in memory?
>
> Thi
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/21/2009 5:30:02 PM
Michael Ludwig schrieb:
> Michael Kay schrieb:
>> I think we are looking for a format that allows you to cross
>> implementation boundaries.
>
> Yes, but if I remember correctly (not sure I do, actually), a
> motivation for this quest was efficiency in a pipeline, which
&g
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/21/2009 5:20:18 PM
Michael Kay schrieb:
> Some people have been suggesting using a subset of XQuery syntax,
> others have been saying it would be better to use XML syntax.
>
> It occurs to me one might achieve both objectives at the same time by
> using a subset of XSLT syntax.
Reuse is always good.
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/21/2009 4:34:04 PM
Michael Kay schrieb:
>> In all cases, will it not be more efficient to just use some
>> run-of-the-mill serialization format?
>
> A general-purpose serialization format (for example, Java
> serialization) will represent the concrete implementation of
> the XDM model (for ex
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/21/2009 4:15:20 PM
David A. Lee schrieb:
> Q: what *is* the convention for referencing threads from other mailing
> lists ?
Don't know. I simply post links to a copy of the thread in an archive,
like MarkMail, Nabble, Gossamer. MarkMail has nice short URLs for
getting the root of the thread (click on "A
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/21/2009 4:05:47 PM
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
rjelliffe writes:
> Probably someone has mentioned this, but one approach might be based on
> Michael's attributes:
>
> http://www.w3.org/2002/04/xmlschema-psvi-in-xml
There is an earlier approach which is much more verbose, but also m
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/21/2009 3:01:13 PM
Some people have been suggesting using a subset of XQuery
syntax, others have been saying it would be better to use XML
syntax.
It occurs to me one might achieve both objectives at the same
time by using a subset of XSLT syntax. That is, we could define the syntax to be
a named x
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/21/2009 2:45:23 PM
Ouch. If this cant be done in xquery syntax then my goal of
de-serializing an XML representation using a XQuery example implementation is
out the door.Here's my best shot ... attribute
{ fn:QName( "U" , "P:N" ) } { my:IdType( "S"
) }
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/21/2009 2:34:54 PM
>
> In all cases, will it not be more efficient to just use some
> run-of-the-mill serialization format?
A general-purpose serialization format (for example, Java serialization)
will represent the concrete implementation of the XDM model (for example a
Saxon TinyTree), which will only
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/21/2009 2:21:54 PM
David A. Lee schrieb:
> I'm dual-posting this because I think it is relevant to XML in
> general, but perhaps more so to xquery
Not a good idea when starting a discussion, because typically, no one
list will get the full discussion. I think I would rather have posted
pointer mails to other
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/21/2009 1:44:38 PM
Tim Bray schrieb:
> I friend who doesn't read this asks:
>
> I'm looking for a library in C that has an API that takes an xml
> document and a xquery (or similar syntax) and returns an answer. i
> need to drop this into an embedded system. Any ideas?
Maybe C++ is acceptable, too?
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/21/2009 1:25:41 PM
All,
I have been reading this thread with much interest. I don't think I
have much to add in terms of the serialisation format (save I would
personally prefer an XML format without having academic argument for such a preference). As an extension/example of use-case 5
- Provide a human readable
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/21/2009 1:21:22 PM
> { my:IdType( "S" ) } (: wont work will it :( :)
> Ok I admit I'm totally stumped. *IS* there a way to re-animate this
> example using XQuery (or XSLT?) ?
I don't think you can just assert the type of the attribute. Given a
schema you can of course explictly get xqu
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/21/2009 1:00:28 PM
Heyo.
Does anyone happen to know whatever became of the XSLTMark benchmark
application?
It appears that DataPower was acquired by IBM; all the download links
on the net now appear to redirect to the pages where IBM will sell you
an XML Appliance. There's no indication of what's happened to i
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/21/2009 12:55:26 PM
Hi,
Kurt Cagle a écrit :
> (<?xml version="1.0"
> encoding="UTF-8"?>,"foo",5^positiveInteger,<bar><bat/></bar>,<!-- foo -->)
Why not writing it directly as a native XQuery sequence ?
("foo",xs:positiveInteger(5),<bar
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/21/2009 12:38:35 PM
>
> Why not writing it directly as a native XQuery sequence ?
> ("foo",xs:positiveInteger(5),<bar><bat/></bar>,<!-- foo -->)
>
How would you serialize a parentless attribute node having local name N,
prefix P, namespace URI U, whose string value is
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/21/2009 12:01:37 PM
Michael Ludwig wrote:
> Michael Kay schrieb:
>> Some people have been suggesting using a subset of XQuery syntax,
>> others have been saying it would be better to use XML syntax.
>>
>> It occurs to me one might achieve both objectives at the same time by
>> using
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/21/2009 11:35:24 AM
Hi David
I would favour an exploration of an XML parsable solution first.
An XDM outputMethod (XDM serializer) would serialize similar to XML
outputMethod with the introduction of some xdm wrappers where necessary
such as:
<xdm:sequence>
<xdm:item type=xs:integer>10<xdm:
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/21/2009 10:39:12 AM
Micheal Kay :
B20EDCD31E1F4155A5B076C3860689DC@Sealion"
type="cite">
I think you're going to have difficulty
reconstituting the original sequence using tools written in XSLT or
XQuery. (Actually, it hadn't occurred to me this was one of your goals.)
I probably shouldnt have t
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/21/2009 10:31:31 AM
> My opinion is that if I'm going to have to parse "(" and "," I'd rather be
> parsing "<wrapper> ... </wrapper>" at least I wouldn't have to write a new
> (if even simple) parser and can simply read it as XML.
With brackets and commas you can ju
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/21/2009 9:50:15 AM
This is the second time that I've seen the use of XSLT as a formalization mechanism outside of its original scope that I have to admit liking, the first being in the area of creating a consistent documentation dump format for EX*.
I was asleep at the switch on xs:positiveInteger(5) - that one s
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/21/2009 9:33:39 AM
Michael Ludwig wrote:
> David A. Lee schrieb:
>> I'm dual-posting this because I think it is relevant to XML in
>> general, but perhaps more so to xquery
>
> Not a good idea when starting a discussion, because typically, no one
> list will get the full discussion. I think
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/21/2009 9:00:19 AM
... it would be really nice if the
serialization happened to be the 'standard' serialization for those without any
kind of wrapping at all,(no ( ) or no <xdm:wrapper> ..
etc)That way if you just happened to produce a single XDM Item of type
element or text there'd be n
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/21/2009 8:56:30 AM
For purposes of discussion, suppose that you
arbitrarily split sequence serialization from single-item serialization into
non-XML formats because I believe they are actually qualitatively different
problems. Referring only to the sequence serialization side of the problem here,
I think the q
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/21/2009 8:14:15 AM
Ouch. If this cant be done in xquery syntax then my goal of
de-serializing an XML representation using a XQuery example
implementation is out the door.
Here's my best shot ...
attribute
{ fn:QName( "U" , "P:N" ) }
{ my:IdType( "S" ) } (: w
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/21/2009 7:09:11 AM
Philippe Poulard wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Kurt Cagle a écrit :
>> (<?xml version="1.0"
>> encoding="UTF-8"?>,"foo",5^positiveInteger,<bar><bat/></bar>,<!-- foo
>> -->)
>
> Why not writing it directly as a nati
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/20/2009 10:29:37 PM
I'm going to ask what may be an obvious question, but wouldn't it make
sense for a serialization of a sequence to correspond on the output to the
serialization on the input? That is to say, if you had a
structure:("foo",5,<bar><bat/></bar>,<!-- foo
-
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/20/2009 8:58:00 PM
Marshall Rose, the maintainer of XML2RFC, the tool that makes RFCs out
of an (extremely idiosyncratic) XML dialect, wrote me, and I quote:
---------------------
You may have heard that i oversee the xml2rfc package, which
implements an "minimalist" dtd for people writing internet-dra
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/20/2009 8:54:59 PM
I friend who doesn't read this asks:
I'm looking for a library in C that has an API that takes an xml
document and a xquery (or similar syntax) and returns an answer. i
need to drop this into an embedded system. Any ideas?
-T
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/20/2009 8:31:13 PM
Kurt, could you expand on what you think might be the advantages of a
format such as your example ?
(<?xml version="1.0"
encoding="UTF-8"?>,"foo",5^positiveInteger,<bar><bat/></bar>,<!--
foo -->)
I'm not at all opposed to multiple new serialization formats, altho
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/20/2009 6:13:43 PM
Kurt, could you expand on what you think might be the advantages of a
format such as your example ?
(<?xml version="1.0"
encoding="UTF-8"?>,"foo",5^positiveInteger,<bar><bat/></bar>,<!--
foo -->)
I'm not at all opposed to multiple ne
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/20/2009 4:17:05 PM
I'm not unaware of most of the implications of this format, but I still think it's one that's worth thinking on.For purposes of discussion, suppose that you arbitrarily split sequence serialization from single-item serialization into non-XML formats because I believe they are actually q
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/20/2009 10:05:18 AM
Probably someone has mentioned this, but one approach might be based on
Michael's attributes:
http://www.w3.org/2002/04/xmlschema-psvi-in-xml
I also think there is merit in something like the following:
<xdm:typed-document>
<xdm:type>
<rdf:bag>
<xs:stri
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/20/2009 7:19:47 AM
Not quite sure I follow you.
Are you suggesting that the Serialization format in fact could be
identical to the XQuery syntax that would produce that format ?
Much like say the JSON format is equivalent to the JavaScript code that
produces that data ?
That could work ... but there's some issue
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/19/2009 7:51:00 PM
I'm going to ask what may be an obvious question, but wouldn't it make sense for a serialization of a sequence to correspond on the output to the serialization on the input? That is to say, if you had a structure:
("foo",5,<bar><bat/></bar>,<!-- foo -->)int
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/19/2009 2:32:53 PM
In my mind this new specification I'm proposing would neither subsume
the existing serialization specifications, nor be merged ino XQuery,
XPath and XSLT.
The former because I'm proposing an entirely different set of use cases
and implications that the existing specification does not addr
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/19/2009 2:14:39 PM
I am reading this the same way as you. The use of the <doc>
element and reference to an external entity are used as a way to
describe
that the elements are simply text concatenated.
Atleast thats how I read it.
Jim Tivy wrote:
00b801ca3951$6aa9af40$9701a8c0@Taku" type
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/19/2009 11:39:33 AM
Its pretty subtle, IMHO but this section to me implies that the nodes
in a sequence are serialized as XML then the resultant text
concatenated:
---- QUOTE
If the document node of the normalized sequence has a
single element node child and no text node children, t
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/19/2009 10:48:37 AM
Yes, from http://www.w3.org/TR/xslt-xquery-serialization
I think my use case is handled by producing a serialization of an "external
general parsed entity" which can have (element)* in a form such as:
<div>
</div>
<div>
</div>
There is
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/19/2009 10:38:20 AM
Hi Folks
Yes, there is a question of scope.
Regarding scope of an XDM Serialization
recommendation, would not an XDM Serialization recommendation subsume the XSLT
and XQuery serialization specification - or should they not be the same
specification since XQuery,XPath and X
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/19/2009 10:09:38 AM
This spec describes concatenation of node sequences such that they
are parseable as entities.In the case you describe I think that fits
well.Atleast in my reading
5
XML Output Method
This describes serializing a sequence of nodes. I think this spec
would fit for y
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/19/2009 8:27:45 AM
Michael Sokolov wrote:
200909191125.n8JBPgFv006236@hades.falutin.net"
type="cite">
I have sometimes needed to be able to serialize a heterogeneous
sequence of items which
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/19/2009 8:01:15 AM
I have sometimes needed to be able to serialize a heterogeneous sequence of
items which may be either atomic values or nodes. I'm not sure, but this may be
what Jim is driving at. It is OK for my purpose if the values do not carry
intrinsic type information and are simply text in the seriali
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/18/2009 11:00:53 PM
Good start.
The next section before you go into specification should perhaps be
"Requirements", including assumptions and constraints. This might include
statements such as:
* Serialized XDM will retain information about the descendants of nodes in
the sequence being serialized, but i
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/18/2009 9:20:50 PM
This spec describes concatenation of node sequences such that they are
parseable as entities.
In the case you describe I think that fits well.
Atleast in my reading
5
XML Output Method
This describes serializing a sequence of nodes. I think this spec
would fit for your use case.
Atleast
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/18/2009 8:06:51 PM
Thanks Michael. I think my next step will be to document what
attributes of XDM should be maintained through serialization and what
will be dropped.
I agree that Node Identity is not something that can reasonably be
maintained.
Ancestry is an interesting concept I hadn't considered ...
e
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/18/2009 7:45:30 PM
This is a case, if I'm reading it properly, where the current XDM
Serializaiton spec may serve perfectly.
http://www.w3.org/TR/xslt-xquery-serialization/
That would concatenate the result nodes such that it is serialized
equivalently to an external entity.
David A. Lee
dlee@c&
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/18/2009 6:00:24 PM
David
I do not see in this spec where it defines the serialization of a sequence.
I was not talking about concatenating "nodes" but rather concatenation of
text from a sequence after it was serialized.
Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: David A. Lee [mailto:dlee@
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/18/2009 5:07:21 PM
I have created a first pass at documenting the problem of XDM
Serialization and created some use cases.
I would love any feedback or comments. This is on a new wiki I created
for this purpose. If you would like to comment directly on the wiki
please reply to me and I will give you the invite
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/18/2009 4:22:18 PM
Here is a better description of the use case I have:
There are a number "templating" technologies in use for defining web pages;
for example PHP, ASP and JSP. These templating languages have been very
successful. When these templates "execute", they produce an HTML page as a
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/18/2009 3:11:40 PM
Hi David
We use XDM serialization - for a simple sequence. We have a pipeline that
we execute and the last node is XPath /html/body/* of an upstream html
document - we call it html core output. We use this in JSP (java server
pages) code where we wish to establish the css files and meta tags bu
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/18/2009 10:51:43 AM
For enabling xml:id support in Xerces for XInclude you can use the patch
I posted in the following issue report:
http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/XERCESJ-1113
We use this in oXygen for some years.
I agree that a separate xml:id processor in Xerces will be better but
until that will be avai
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/18/2009 9:26:10 AM
Well that is interesting. As in so many other cases, I can see I'm not
the first one with this problem.
I am reluctant to introduce a patched Xerces only for this case,
although being tied to a DTD is really painful in various other ways, so
maybe it would be worth it to take on the support o
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/16/2009 10:43:24 PM
Michael Glavassevich schrieb am 16.09.2009 um 15:11:08 (-0400):
>
> If you read through the specification you'll notice that the
> assignment of IDs is conceptually done by a component separate from
> the parser called an xml:id processor [1].
It's an add-on to the parser. Like XML N
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/16/2009 6:17:47 PM
FYI - I did finally get my case working, using the DTD; I had some
internal confirguration issue preventing validation from being turned on
properly. I can confirm that xproc element() references to xml:ids do
work with xerces when the DTD declares them to be of type ID.
Thanks to all who rep
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/16/2009 3:19:10 PM
OK thanks; so just to recap: although Xerces is not an xml:id processor,
it should be possible to identify an occurrence of xml:id as an ID by
declaring it so in a DTD, and I guess, validating a document against
that DTD, thereby enabling the xpointer element() resolution.
In my case, the DTD
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/16/2009 3:12:18 PM
I dont know about Xerces support or XPointer ...
But this link describes whats *supposed* to happen fairly well .. .I
had just stumbled on this the other day ..
http://www.w3.org/TR/xml-id/
It talks about using internal or external DTD's to mark the magic
xml:id
<!ATTLIST someElement
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/16/2009 3:11:08 PM
If you read through the specification you'll notice that the assignment of IDs is conceptually done by a component separate from the parser called an xml:id processor [1]. Xerces has never provided an implementation of such a processor, so the answer to your question is no it won't work unless you
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/16/2009 3:06:23 PM
On the one hand, I don't see how xml:id can work, since that's in a
namespace and DTD's don't understand namespaces. On the other hand, I
could see how someone might modify their processors to understand it since
it's (a) in the core namespace; and (b) everyone handles namespaces these
days.
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/16/2009 2:50:16 PM
Yes - I was hoping you would pick up this thread. So, I'm not sure I
understood your response. I guess my basic question is whether it is
feasible to use xpointer="element(<id-value>)" with Xerces (as it seems
from the FAQ), and if so, what needs to be in place for that to work
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/16/2009 2:28:14 PM
john.l.clark@gmail.com wrote on 09/16/2009 02:20:49 PM:
> Mike,
>
> On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 2:04 PM, Mike Sokolov <sokolov@ifactory.com> wrote:
> > Question: is xml:id considered
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/16/2009 2:20:49 PM
Mike,
On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 2:04 PM, Mike Sokolov <sokolov@ifactory.com> wrote:
> Question: is xml:id considered a "DTD-determined ID" according to the XProc
> spec? I read it, and found this sentence:
>
> [Definition
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/16/2009 2:04:17 PM
Background: a customer supplies data with xi:include elements using the
xpointer scheme for addressing elements in other xml files. We put it
to them that xpointer is not supported by any parsers. Perhaps someone
on this list will tell me this is not true, but I was having trouble
g
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/16/2009 12:20:36 PM
At 2009-09-16 15:12 -0400, David A. Lee wrote:
>I dont know about Xerces support or XPointer ...
>But this link describes whats *supposed* to happen fairly well .. .I
>had just stumbled on this the other day ..
>
><http://www.w3.org/TR/xml-id/>http://www.w3.org/TR/xml-id/
>
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/16/2009 11:03:52 AM
MARK YOUR CALENDARS
Balisage 2010
August 3 - 6, 2010, Montréal, Canada
August 2, 2010 - pre-conference symposium (topic to be announced)
Balisage is a peer-reviewed conference designed to meet the needs of markup
theoreticians
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/16/2009 12:57:30 AM
David A. Lee wrote:
>
> Even given that, I agree with Micheal. In the XML community,
> working with XML types, XML tools it a JSON serializing format wont
> have any significant acceptance.
>
I guess I don't understand the problem clearly.
If the problem is that the XQuery and
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/15/2009 11:46:49 PM
Michael Kay wrote:
>>> There is no standard or even 'community accepted' way of
>>>
>> serializing XDM
>>
>
>
>> What is wrong with JSON for this?
>>
>
> Nearly everything, starting with the fact that the target user commun
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/15/2009 10:53:28 PM
David A. Lee wrote:
>
> Summary (postulate)
> There is no standard or even 'community accepted' way of serializing XDM
What is wrong with JSON for this?
The XPath2 data model is a system for *converting* XML into programming
language types, or for operating on a kind of XSD PSVI. There
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/15/2009 5:15:06 PM
I thought about your proposal once again. I think, this would be
useful for XML community.
so, +1 from me for this proposal. As I wrote earlier, I think a XML
format (defined as a XML Schema), would be good for XDM serialization.
On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 12:55 AM, David A. Lee <dlee@c
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/15/2009 3:59:47 PM
On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 9:15 AM, David A. Lee <dlee@calldei.com> wrote:
I'm not going to enter into a JSON war.Oh, I don't think the war is about JSON. Not at all. In fact, the war predates JSON by a great deal ;)-- Uche Ogbuji htt
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/15/2009 3:19:10 PM
> I think this may be shifting the goal post.
I think we all have very different ideas of where the goal posts are. That's
why I've asked for requirements and use cases.
Regards,
Michael Kay
http://www.saxonica.com/
http://twitter.com/michaelhkay
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/15/2009 2:26:43 PM
> > There is no standard or even 'community accepted' way of
> serializing XDM
> What is wrong with JSON for this?
Nearly everything, starting with the fact that the target user community is
likely to want something that can be manipulated using XML tools.
In fact, what is right w
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/15/2009 11:15:04 AM
I'm not going to enter into a JSON war. Your example only works if you
know the meanings of "p" , "links" and "b".
Encoding *arbitrary XML* losslessly in JSON is not nearly so simple or
clean. There is *not* a single existing accepted convention on how to
do it.
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/15/2009 10:01:32 AM
> It has sequences (arrays) which was the problem being complained of.
> It can be exported into XDM and imported back, with minimal
> conventions. It has explicit types.
>
Sequences are not the core problem, they are the *missing bits* of a
problem that is already largely solved w
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/15/2009 8:36:40 AM
You could always tag the root node with a special attribute, say
xml:serialized="true", and then treat the document as needing special
de-serialization treatment. That way you don't need a wrapper element
for a single node. It would however be difficult to distinguish an
element node from a
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/15/2009 7:55:47 AM
The one problem I am struggling with for an XML serialization format
for XDM is the use case which I suspect is the most common use case,
outputting a single XML Document.
If it was serialized in this new "XML XDM" format then the output of a
single XML document wouldnt be the XML document, it
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/14/2009 9:55:20 PM
Hello David,
I think, I agree with you, that it's a good idea to be able to
serialize an XDM instance into some form. I would prefer an XML format
for the serialized XDM instance. i.e, perhaps we could define a XML
Schema for XDM serialization format.
But I am keen to know, what could be usefu
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/14/2009 8:42:36 PM
>
> I believe this lack of standardization for serialization of
> XDM is both
> a "Problem" and a "BIG Problem"
> Before I extend the topic to "suggested solutions" I would love some
> feedback.
>
> Q: Does anyone else agree this is a &quo
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
9/14/2009 3:25:09 PM
There is one other use case submitted to me privately:
Paraphrased:
5) given a huge xml instance, in an XML database or flat file.
Basically too big to manage with XSLT.
Use xquery to extract manageable chunks, then pass on to XSLT to
process as required.
Reconstitute the results
. . . Read full entry »
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