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The XML-DEV Blog

The XML-DEV email discussion forum was started nearly 10 years ago by Dr. Peter Murray-Rust and Dr. Henry Rzepa of Imperial College (UK), covering XML development topics including XML standards, XML specifications, and technical questions related to the eXtensible Markup Language. The XML-DEV Blog brings the XML-DEV community into the blogging era, enabling XML developers to easily follow the hottest threads in the blogosphere.


Function point estimation tool

Posted 6/20/2018 11:40:25 AM

Hi all,   I wrote a tool few years ago for doing Function point estimation, written using XML, XSLT (2.0) and XSD (1.0). It was never available to outside viewers back then. But now, I've published it at, http://gandhimukul.tripod.com/xml/Function_Point_Estimation_Tool.zip. The usage documentat . . . Read full entry »


[ANN] Symposium on Markup Vocabulary Ecosystems

Posted 6/18/2018 4:59:15 PM

Successful shared markup vocabularies, far from being just lists of tags, are the centers of complex ecosystems that support use and users while drawing support from both user communities and vendors. The program for the Symposium on Markup Vocabulary Ecosystems is now available: https://www.balis . . . Read full entry »


Re: key and keyref issues

Posted 5/30/2018 4:41:58 PM

The elements in the source document are all in a namespace but the path expressions in your key definitions are looking for elements in no namespace.Michael KaySaxonicaOn 30 May 2018, at 16:33, John Dziurlaj <john@hiltonroscoe.com&g . . . Read full entry »


Re: key and keyref issues

Posted 5/30/2018 4:11:01 PM

Dear John, I found the original documents -- your first e-mail with them got stuck in the spam filter, apologies about the overhead. The reason why the default namespace is not considered is that, in my understanding, XML Schema uses restricted XPath, based on XPath 1.0. In XPath 1.0, you . . . Read full entry »


Re: key and keyref issues

Posted 5/30/2018 3:52:18 PM

Dear John, I agree with Mike -- however I also do see that in your document you are referring to types using no prefixes either, which may indicate that you are declaring a default namespace. Maybe if you would share your entire document, it would help narrow down the issue, or at least all t . . . Read full entry »


RE: key and keyref issues

Posted 5/30/2018 11:58:26 AM

I added an explicit namespace (n1) and updated the constraints to use it: New xsd:schema tag: <xsd:schema xmlns="NIST_V2_election_results_reporting.xsd" xmlns:xsd="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema" xmlns:n1="NIST_V2_election_results_reporting.xsd" targetNamespace= . . . Read full entry »


key and keyref issues

Posted 5/30/2018 11:33:04 AM

I’m attempting to constrain a schema, which has a lot of xsd:ID and xsd:IDREF, so that, for example, a Person IDREF can only refer to a Person ID.  I wrote a key and keyref constraint thus: <xsd:element name="ElectionReport" type="ElectionReport">      <xsd:key name=&qu . . . Read full entry »


[ANN] Call for Late-Breaking News - Balisage 2018

Posted 5/29/2018 12:58:34 PM

Call for Late-breaking News: Balisage 2018! The peer-reviewed part of the Balisage 2018 program has been scheduled (https://www.balisage.net/2018/Program.html). The committee left a few spaces for late-breaking news. If you want to speak at Balisage 2018 NOW IS THE TIME to write up your idea; pro . . . Read full entry »


Re: How to avoid (minimize) errors due to copying, pasting,and

Posted 5/24/2018 2:07:58 AM

You problem is how to enforce the desired invariants between a source and target data set.I have used Schematron for this on several large (hundreds of thousands) of documents. For example, one invariant might be that the source and target documents have the same number of headings.  Or that every . . . Read full entry »


[ANN] Balisage 2018 Program Announced

Posted 5/23/2018 12:40:24 PM

Balisage: The Markup Conference 2018 Program Now Available http://www.balisage.net/2018/Program.html Balisage: where serious markup practitioners and theoreticians meet every summer. The 2018 program includes papers that reflect and look forward, and that discuss the use of markup to: manage do . . . Read full entry »


Re: How to avoid (minimize) errors due to copying,pasting, and

Posted 5/23/2018 7:07:38 AM

Hi Roger, dividing the problem into creating and checking resources, and focusing on the second, I think the magic word is *structured information*. Unfortunately, the awareness of structured information and their potential usefulness is very low. Or let me be more precise: the awarene . . . Read full entry »


Re: How to avoid (minimize) errors due to copying, pasting,and

Posted 5/22/2018 8:17:41 PM

On 22/05/18 10:11, yamahito wrote: > I also think that more can be done to push digital capture upstream > towards the author, reducing or eliminating the extra steps between > the original thought and semantic markup. That would benefit everyone, but the curve is steep. > This dep . . . Read full entry »


[ANN] Release of XMLmind XML Editor v8.1

Posted 5/22/2018 11:06:15 AM

Release of XMLmind XML Editor v8.1. Highlights: - XMLmind XML Editor, which passed all non-regression tests, is now officially supported on Java™ 10 platforms. - Several minor yet useful enhancements, for example, a more powerful and more flexible Edit tool. - Several bug fixes. - Updated alm . . . Read full entry »


Re: How to avoid (minimize) errors due to copying, pasting,and

Posted 5/22/2018 10:11:10 AM

What Amy said!I also think that more can be done to push digital capture upstream towards the author, reducing or eliminating the extra steps between the original thought and semantic markup.  This depends on the quality and appropriateness of your tools, as well as the willingness of the author/co . . . Read full entry »


How to avoid (minimize) errors due to copying, pasting, andtranscribing?

Posted 5/17/2018 11:59:34 AM

Hi Folks, I am working on a project that has created a large, complex data specification. There are tables in the data specification, from which I created Schematron rules. The tables specify a bunch of codes. When I created the Schematron rules, I accidentally missed some of the codes. I disc . . . Read full entry »


Re: How to avoid (minimize) errors due to copying,pasting, and

Posted 5/17/2018 8:07:16 AM

On Thu, 17 May 2018 11:59:34 +0000, Costello, Roger L. wrote: > It occurs to me that quite possibly lots of errors are due to simple > human errors from copying, pasting, transcribing. How to avoid this? Eliminate humans! ROTM! Okay, so that's not really funny (our robotic overlords have n . . . Read full entry »


Re: How to avoid (minimize) errors due to copying, pasting,and

Posted 5/17/2018 6:48:02 AM

This is the only known path of knowledge -- by trial and error and through continuous refinement. Try to avoid this and there would be no progress. Cheers, Dimitre On Thu, May 17, 2018 at 4:59 AM, Costello, Roger L. <costello@mitre.org> wrote: &g . . . Read full entry »


Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT]: Apache Xerces-J 2.12.0 now available

Posted 5/10/2018 2:00:40 PM

On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 12:45 PM, Peintner, Daniel <daniel.peintner.ext@siemens.com> wrote: I planned to switch to the latest version in some of my maven-based projects and noticed that Apache Xerces-J 2.12.0 is not yet push . . . Read full entry »


Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT]: Apache Xerces-J 2.12.0 now available

Posted 5/10/2018 10:56:05 AM

If this is not done automatically, this *must* be done manually. It is an important requirement that such important components are available in maven central. And nobody outside of Apache organization is able to publish to maven under an artifact named org.apache... . . . Read full entry »


AW: [ANNOUNCEMENT]: Apache Xerces-J 2.12.0 now available

Posted 5/10/2018 7:15:26 AM

All, Great news and thanks for your hard work! I planned to switch to the latest version in some of my maven-based projects and noticed that Apache Xerces-J 2.12.0 is not yet pushed to Maven. I assume this is going to happen soon also.. right? Thanks, -- Daniel ____________________ . . . Read full entry »


Re: Apache needs help

Posted 5/8/2018 7:27:39 PM

Yes, but No.  The underlying root cause was XSD 1.0 was simply not up to the job.  It keys typing off the element name, which makes it useless for the large class of documents that require generic schemas (where the type is determined by something else as well as the element name.)   Having been so . . . Read full entry »


Apache needs help

Posted 5/8/2018 3:03:06 PM

Do those of us who want to keep XML a viable technology (i.e. one that works when need it, rather than needing to be fixed when we need it) need to pay more attention to things like Apache?  Yet again I am having the experience of Apache that they really messed up their XML when they moved to . . . Read full entry »


[announcement] Markup UK conference - last day of early birdregistration

Posted 5/8/2018 10:23:29 AM

All,(apologies for cross-posting)A month from now we will have Markup UK, a conference on XML and other mark-up technologies.We are extremely happy to be able to announce an excellent set of papers and presentations on a broad set of topics, please checkhttp://markupuk.org/speakers.xhtmlIf you woul . . . Read full entry »


Re: Apache needs help

Posted 5/8/2018 9:19:15 AM

There are, I suspect, two underlying "root causes" here.The first problem is that when XML is peripheral to a project, for example when it's only used for configuration files, the people doing the XML part often make a complete mess of it, because they think they can do XML without learning about i . . . Read full entry »


Re: [ANNOUNCEMENT]: Apache Xerces-J 2.12.0 now available

Posted 5/4/2018 2:53:35 PM

Well done!  Good to see.Now that Java comes with a recent Xerces implementation too, instead of the old crappy one, things might be looking up for people who need XSD. (Java is still only XSD 1.0, shame on them.)RickOn Fri, May 4, 2018 at 2:36 PM, Mukul Gandhi <gandhi . . . Read full entry »


[ANNOUNCEMENT]: Apache Xerces-J 2.12.0 now available

Posted 5/4/2018 10:06:53 AM

Hi all,   The Apache Xerces project team is pleased to announce that version 2.12.0 of Apache Xerces-J is now available.Xerces-J 2.12.0 can be downloaded at: http://xerces.apache.org/mirrors.cgi.This release expands on Xerces-J's experimental support for XML Schema 1.1 by providing a fully comp . . . Read full entry »


Re: Need for more?

Posted 5/2/2018 10:01:34 PM

On 01/05/2018 16:08, Dave Pawson wrote: https://ballerina.io/res/Ballerina-Language-Specification-WD-2015-05-01.pdf https://ballerina.io/learn/faq/#why-are-you-creating-a-new-language Regards, Tony Graham. -- Senior Architect XML Division Antenna House, Inc. ---- Skerries, Ireland tg . . . Read full entry »


Re: Need for more?

Posted 5/2/2018 9:38:45 PM

On 01/05/18 16:08, Dave Pawson wrote: > > https://ballerina.io/res/Ballerina-Language-Specification-WD-2015-05-01.pdf I don't see GOTO in there anywhere... P . . . Read full entry »


Need for more?

Posted 5/1/2018 4:08:17 PM

https://ballerina.io/res/Ballerina-Language-Specification-WD-2015-05-01.pdf JC is a contributor. -- Dave Pawson XSLT XSL-FO FAQ. Docbook FAQ. . . . Read full entry »


[ANN] Release of XMLmind Word To XML v1.5

Posted 4/25/2018 9:27:44 AM

Release of XMLmind Word To XML v1.5. Highlights: - Several enhancements and bug fixes mostly related to the support of East Asian languages. - XMLmind Word To XML, which passed all non-regression tests, is now officially supported on Java™ 10 platforms. More information in http://www.xmlmind.c . . . Read full entry »


Re: KML is very extensible ... but why?

Posted 4/25/2018 9:15:59 AM

Simon, "...we never stop thinking, and brittleness is not a virtue." True but then academics never stop building artificial (in my opinion) walls that slow down or prevent the sharing of data. There are a variety of motives for such acts and I for one am not . . . Read full entry »


Re: KML is very extensible ... but why?

Posted 4/25/2018 6:42:00 AM

On 4/24/2018 2:12 AM, Rick Jelliffe wrote: Sorry about typos. Giant fingers  tiny screen. Don't worry at all.  That fit the conversation perfectly. Is part of what you are identifying a manifestation of the paradox of standards? . . . Read full entry »


Re: KML is very extensible ... but why?

Posted 4/24/2018 6:12:14 AM

Sorry about typos. Giant fingers  tiny screen.Is part of what you are identifying a manifestation of the paradox of standards?   Standard processes say they are at heart an agreement. But if you come along too late, the deal is done. And the standards stop being an agreement but an imposition, even . . . Read full entry »


Re: KML is very extensible ... but why?

Posted 4/23/2018 8:15:34 AM

>How many of those 6000 bespoke dmbs are because no-sql key value stores were not available, in the relationshipal monoculture that dbms vendors promote In the case of HR systems at the Pentagon, I would think it's highly likely that many are pre-relational. (I just got my monthly Fujitsu pen . . . Read full entry »


Re: KML is very extensible ... but why?

Posted 4/23/2018 6:35:42 AM

I like these, though I think autocorrect has done some strange things.  I'll reply as I think it it was meant, and let me know if I'm wrong in my guesses about the questions in addition to my answers.  (Which fits the topic perfectly, actually!) On 4/23/2018 12:31 AM, Rick Jelliffe wrote: Two . . . Read full entry »


Re: KML is very extensible ... but why?

Posted 4/23/2018 4:31:08 AM

Two quickies.Shared synth good, shared semantics bad. But does a schema really special syntax?Does a schema share semantics or just advertise them?RICKOn Mon, 23 Apr 2018, 10:57 Simon St.Laurent <simonstl@simonstl.com> wrote: . . . Read full entry »


Re: KML is very extensible ... but why?

Posted 4/23/2018 4:15:15 AM

On the typical of roll-your-own-considered-dangerous.  I think for the situations where you dont know the problem upfront, rolling your own can be entirely reasonable. How many of those 6000 bespoke dmbs are because no-sql key value stores were not available, in the relationshipal monoculture that . . . Read full entry »


Re: KML is very extensible ... but why?

Posted 4/23/2018 12:38:04 AM

On Sun, 22 Apr 2018, 14:29 Simon St.Laurent, <simonstl@simonstl.com> wrote: On 4/20/2018 12:59 PM, Costello, Roger L. wrote: Hi Folks,   The format of KML . . . Read full entry »


Re: KML is very extensible ... but why?

Posted 4/22/2018 8:02:16 PM

Simon, I shudder at "...it's just an extraction problem...." Switching from one ontology to another must just be a mapping problem. ;-) If those are both "...just..." type problems, why do you think data scientists keep talking about transformation of data being 80% of what t . . . Read full entry »


Re: KML is very extensible ... but why?

Posted 4/22/2018 6:04:01 PM

On 4/22/2018 5:50 PM, Patrick Durusau wrote: Well, let's say you create an extension to a popular word processing format that provides enhances the content, but only if used with your software. Isn't that a form of vendor lock-in, even if practiced by an individual contractor? No.  Eve . . . Read full entry »


Re: KML is very extensible ... but why?

Posted 4/21/2018 6:42:29 AM

It depends, I think.Your schema may be defining an envelope, where you want to allow anything. Or, since a standard is an agreement, you might have finished short on agreeing everything, so you just standardize as far as you could. Or you may want to allow annotation and evolution. Or you may want . . . Read full entry »


Re: KML is very extensible ... but why?

Posted 4/20/2018 6:31:22 PM

But why? If I add non-KML stuff in a KML instance, who’s going to understand my stuff? Google Earth? No. Google Maps? No. NASA WorldWind? No.If you add XSLTdoc comments to an XSLT stylesheet, who's going to understand them? Saxon? no. Xalan? no. xsltproc? no.An XSLT documentation processor? Ye . . . Read full entry »


KML is very extensible ... but why?

Posted 4/20/2018 4:59:57 PM

Hi Folks,   The format of KML 2.3 documents are specified with a W3C 1.1 XML Schema. XML Schema 1.1 has a powerful feature which KML uses. At the top of the KML schema is this:   <defaultOpenContent mode="interleave">       <any namespace=& . . . Read full entry »


=?UTF-8?Q?Re=3A_=5Bxml=2Ddev=5D_Should_XML_applications_follow_Postel?==

Posted 4/20/2018 3:18:17 PM

So all that means is that Postel's law can confict with Goal 6?  Who says is should not? Just another tradeoff, surely?Still not very convinced, sorry.  If someone at the other end does not implement reading PIs, why cannot you use the same logic that they may have omitted to implement some el . . . Read full entry »


=?UTF-8?Q?Re=3A_=5Bxml=2Ddev=5D_Should_XML_applications_follow_Postel?==

Posted 4/20/2018 1:55:47 PM

Three comments:* I think Postel's principle speaks about the risk of rarely-implemented things, in particular, optional things. So I don't believe that there is any danger of a lot of XML processors that don't handle > or hex characters or CDATA sections. The DPH died in around 19 . . . Read full entry »


Re: KML is very extensible ... but why?

Posted 4/20/2018 1:22:20 PM

The first child element of very document element of the 81 document types in UBL 2.2 is <ext:UBLExtensions>. This element can have any number of <ext:UBLExtension> elements with metadata about an extension, as well as the extension content point. Under the content point is a single . . . Read full entry »


Re: KML is very extensible ... but why?

Posted 4/20/2018 12:19:41 PM

DITA has a similar feature, it’s “foreign” element.  The purpose is to allow embedding of non-DITA content with a clear signal that it is non-DITA. There is no expectation of interoperability for non-DITA stuff but the fact that’s non-DITA is clearly signaled. With DITA 1.3 the DITA stand . . . Read full entry »


=?UTF-8?Q?Re=3A_=5Bxml=2Ddev=5D_Should_XML_applications_follow_Postel?==

Posted 4/20/2018 12:22:24 AM

On Thu, Apr 19, 2018 at 11:55 PM, Rick Jelliffe <rjelliffe@allette.com.au> wrote: * I think Postel's principle speaks about the risk of rarely-implemented things, in particular, optional things. So I don't believe that there is any danger . . . Read full entry »


=?UTF-8?Q?Re=3A_=5Bxml=2Ddev=5D_Should_XML_applications_follow_Postel?==

Posted 4/19/2018 10:13:57 PM

On Thu, Apr 12, 2018 at 8:34 PM, Rick Jelliffe <rjelliffe@allette.com.au> wrote:So this only relates to optional parts of a spec. In XML there are only three optional things: version, standalone, character encoding.While I agree with this post, . . . Read full entry »


Re: Do package delivery services use data standards fortrackin

Posted 4/18/2018 6:50:01 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftQ6A3DKKeghttps://www.ups.com/us/en/services/technology-integration/developer-api.page?http://www.fedex.com/us/developer/https://www.usps.com/business/web-tools-apis/track-and-confirm-api.htmOn Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 3:23 PM, Costello, Roger L. <coste . . . Read full entry »


Do package delivery services use data standards for trackingpackages?

Posted 4/18/2018 6:23:51 PM

Hi Folks, Do package delivery services such as Fedex, UPS, DHL, USPS use any data standards for tracking packages, for recording the receipt of packages, and so forth? Or, do they all have their own proprietary way of doing things? /Roger . . . Read full entry »


Re: Should XML applications follow=?UTF-8?Q?Postel=E2=80=99s?=

Posted 4/18/2018 5:46:57 PM

On Fri, 2018-04-13 at 00:34 +0000, Rick Jelliffe wrote: > > This statement is based upon a terrible misunderstand of Postel's > robustness principle. Thank you for a very clear and helpful summary. -- Liam Quin, W3C, http://www.w3.org/People/Quin/ Staff contact for Verifiable Claims W . . . Read full entry »


[ANN] Sirix (Open Source) - a time machine for your data / efficientstor

Posted 4/13/2018 5:34:14 PM

After some years I'm pleased to announce a new version of Sirix. A lot of work has gone into cleaning up internals / the APIs as well as improving the performance of the core system. Sirix is a storage system, which brings versioning (for instance a novel sliding snapshot algorithm) to a sub-file . . . Read full entry »


=?UTF-8?Q?Re=3A_=5Bxml=2Ddev=5D_Should_XML_applications_follow_Postel?==

Posted 4/13/2018 12:34:25 AM

Oh, it only seems like 5 years since you asked this question last! oh, wait, it was.Lets not forget this: http://www.cookcomputing.com/blog/archives/000551.htmlThis statement is based upon a terrible misunderstand of Postel's robustness principle. I knew Jon Postel. He was quite unhappy with ho . . . Read full entry »


=?utf-8?Q?Re:_Should_XML_appl?==?utf-8?Q?ications_follow_Postel

Posted 4/12/2018 4:14:08 PM

improving data = "" datastrict on output: yesstrict on output by refusing input data and reporting: yesstrict on output by allowing a developer to change the data a business user or information owner entered: often not Van: "Roger L. Costello" <costello&#x . . . Read full entry »


Re: [ANN] Xidel 0.9.8 released

Posted 4/11/2018 9:48:15 AM

On Wed, 11 Apr 2018 00:43:08 +0200 Benito van der Zander <benito@benibela.de> wrote: > Hi Shlomi, > > > 1. One of the "0.9.6"s should be "0.9.8". > > > > 2. "Github" should be with a capital " . . . Read full entry »


Re: [ANN] Xidel 0.9.8 released

Posted 4/11/2018 12:43:08 AM

Hi Shlomi, 1. One of the "0.9.6"s should be "0.9.8". 2. "Github" should be with a capital "H". Thanks, I have fixed it recently 3. Please mention what the licence is somewhere. . . . Read full entry »


Re: [ANN] Xidel 0.9.8 released

Posted 4/5/2018 11:29:42 AM

Hi Benito, On Wed, 4 Apr 2018 18:14:27 +0200 Benito van der Zander <benito@benibela.de> wrote: > Hello, > > Xidel is a small command line XQuery interpreter to run queries on > downloaded X/HTML pages or JSON-APIs. It s . . . Read full entry »


[ANN] Xidel 0.9.8 released

Posted 4/4/2018 6:14:27 PM

Hello, Xidel is a small command line XQuery interpreter to run queries on downloaded X/HTML pages or JSON-APIs. It supports XPath 3.0, XQuery 3.0 + JSONiq expressions, compatibility modes for older XPath/XQuery versions as well as CSS 3 selecto . . . Read full entry »


[ANN] Call for participation: Markup UK 2018

Posted 3/29/2018 1:46:47 PM

Hello,We are pleased to announce that the Markup UK 2018 conference will take place on Saturday 9th and Sunday 10th June at Imperial College, London.Markup UK (http://www.markupuk.org/) is a conference about XML and other markup languages. Registration will be open very soon.The call for papers i . . . Read full entry »


[ANN] Balisage Submissions Due April 22

Posted 3/29/2018 11:33:32 AM

REMINDER Submissions to Balisage 2018 and to the Symposium on Markup Vocabulary Ecosystems are due in LESS THAN A MONTH! It takes time to write a Balisage paper; it is time to get started. Balisage: The Markup Conference 2018 July 31 — 3, 2018, Rockville, MD (a suburb of Washington, DC) July 30, . . . Read full entry »


[ANN] Release of XMLmind XSL-FO Converter v5.5

Posted 3/26/2018 9:09:03 AM

Release of XMLmind XSL-FO Converter v5.5. Highlights: - XMLmind XSL-FO Converter, which passed all non-regression tests, is now officially supported on Java™ 9 platforms. - New fo2docx options may be used to suppress the "[Compatibility Mode]" text appearing in the title bar of MS-Wor . . . Read full entry »


Re: [ANN] BaseX 9.0: The Spring Edition

Posted 3/24/2018 11:11:45 AM

Very, very impressive.The combination of (a) first-class conformance to the specs (including XQuery Update and Full Text Search); (b) the range and quality of extension modules; (c) the identical treatment (from the developer's point of view) of database and non-database resources; (d) excellent pe . . . Read full entry »


[ANN] BaseX 9.0: The Spring Edition

Posted 3/23/2018 9:33:35 PM

Dear XML aficionados, We are very happy to announce the release of BaseX 9.0! The new version of our XML database system and XQuery 3.1 processor includes some great new features and a vast number of minor improvements and optimizations. It’s both the usage of BaseX in productive environments as . . . Read full entry »


Re: [ann] oXygen XML Editor version 20

Posted 3/20/2018 1:24:41 PM

It seems the below mail has this minor typo, "I am happy to announce that a new release of oXygen XML Editor, version 20 is *not* available from our website"Happy to tell :)On Fri, Mar 16, 2018 at 6:50 PM, George Bina <george@oxygenxml.com> wr . . . Read full entry »


[ann] oXygen XML Editor version 20

Posted 3/16/2018 3:20:34 PM

Hi all, I am happy to announce that a new release of oXygen XML Editor, version 20 is not available from our website http://www.oxygenxml.com You can find the release notes with details about the new additions https://www.oxygenxml.com/xml_editor/whatisnew20.0.html and you can see a short video . . . Read full entry »


Re: XSD derive by restriction via UML

Posted 3/16/2018 1:39:27 PM

I find representation of your UML model and its serialization to the shown XSD document correct, for derive by restriction concept.If you can clarify more the problem to us, I think someone could provide better answers.On Wed, Mar 14, 2018 at 8:43 PM, John Dziurlaj <john@ . . . Read full entry »


Designing XML instances around concepts?

Posted 3/14/2018 11:36:37 AM

Hi Folks, A concept is something you need to understand to work effectively with a system. Examples: To use Twitter, you need to understand tweets, hashtags and the concept of one user following another. To use Facebook, you need to understand posts, tags and friends. To use Adobe Photos . . . Read full entry »


Re: XML Schema generation by machine learning from a corpusof

Posted 3/14/2018 11:35:54 AM

Hi Roger,On Tue, Mar 13, 2018 at 10:19 PM, Costello, Roger L. <costello@mitre.org> wrote:Hi Folks, Scenario: A bunch of XML instance documents are fed into a machine learning program. The program analyzes the instances to learn the structure of the . . . Read full entry »


XSD derive by restriction via UML

Posted 3/14/2018 11:13:11 AM

Hello, I’m working on a proof of concept to generate XML schemas from idiomatic UML class diagrams (PIM). The current generator supports the XSD concept of derivation by extension, but not restriction. Extension is archived by the extending class E to generalize the base class B. The extending clas . . . Read full entry »


Re: XML Schema generation by machine learning from a corpusof

Posted 3/14/2018 10:03:18 AM

We had a program to generate every absolute XPath found in a corpus, then complain (Schematron) if any Xpath was found that was not in that corpus. It did not test for required elements.That kind of thing is only as good as the corpus, and for any decent schema for literature-type of XML, your samp . . . Read full entry »


Re: XML Schema generation by machine learning from acorpus of

Posted 3/14/2018 5:53:00 AM

Michael, you wrote:"Listing every (grandparent, self, child) and (preceding-sibling, self, following-sibling) triple might work better."You mean triples of QNames, right? Like:(parent, self, child): x:company, x:address, x:street (preceding-sibling, self, following-sibling): x:street, x:zip, x:coun . . . Read full entry »


Re: XML Schema generation by machine learning from a corpusof

Posted 3/14/2018 2:09:23 AM

Trang does a very good job.  It generates a RELAX NG schema from a given XML document.  If you have not already tried, you will be stunned.Regards,Makoto2018-03-14 1:49 GMT+09:00 Costello, Roger L. <costello@mitre.org>:Hi Folks, Scenario . . . Read full entry »


Re: XML Schema generation by machine learning from a corpus of

Posted 3/13/2018 11:34:55 PM

> On 13 Mar 2018, at 23:03, Rick Jelliffe <rjelliffe@allette.com.au> wrote: > > We had a program to generate every absolute XPath found in a corpus, then complain (Schematron) if any Xpath was found that was n . . . Read full entry »


Re: XML Schema generation by machine learning from a corpus of

Posted 3/13/2018 6:32:12 PM

I wrote a DTD Generator for fun quite some years ago, and there are plenty of other schema generators around. It was an interesting exercise. The knack is in finding rules that achieve the right balance between allowing anything, and allowing nothing other than what is actually found in the contro . . . Read full entry »


XML Schema generation by machine learning from a corpus of XMLinstance d

Posted 3/13/2018 4:49:38 PM

Hi Folks, Scenario: A bunch of XML instance documents are fed into a machine learning program. The program analyzes the instances to learn the structure of the items, which items are mandatory, and which items are optional. Out pops an XML Schema. Question: Has anyone created an XML Schema genera . . . Read full entry »


Re: XML Schema generation by machine learning from a corpusof

Posted 3/13/2018 1:15:29 PM

In order to train the algorithm wouldn't you need the XML schema you are seeking in the first place :)On Tue, Mar 13, 2018 at 12:49 PM, Costello, Roger L. <costello@mitre.org> wrote:Hi Folks, Scenario: A bunch of XML instance documents are fed into . . . Read full entry »


Re: XML Schema generation by machine learning from a corpus of

Posted 3/13/2018 1:03:34 PM

I should have added this as the last step to get to XSD: An XSLT transformation that compiles an Examplotron schema into an XML Schema (XSD) file https://github.com/Accuity/eg2xsd At 2018-03-13 13:02 -0400, G. Ken Holman wrote: http://books.xmlschemata.org/relaxng/relax-CHP-14-SECT-1.html http: . . . Read full entry »


Re: XML Schema generation by machine learning from a corpus of

Posted 3/13/2018 1:02:12 PM

http://books.xmlschemata.org/relaxng/relax-CHP-14-SECT-1.html http://examplotron.org/ But it wasn't called "machine learning" at the time. I hope this helps. . . . . . Ken At 2018-03-13 16:49 +0000, Costello, Roger L. wrote: Hi Folks, Scenario: A bunch of XML instance documents are . . . Read full entry »


Re: XML Schema generation by machine learning from a corpusof

Posted 3/13/2018 11:42:18 AM

Due to the hierarchical structure of the XML document, one could try to create schemas for smaller fragments (recursively/bottom-up) which may be more successful -- then just combine the (sub)schemas into a parent schema.Do the above recursively... until you reach the document node. Kinda inductive . . . Read full entry »


Re: Infinity

Posted 3/7/2018 7:43:22 PM

On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 6:44 PM, Amelia A Lewis <amyzing@talsever.com> wrote:More likely to be java.math.BigInteger, given that the constraints on java.lang.Integer match primitive int match xs:int rather than xs:integerThat's correct I believe. -- Regards . . . Read full entry »


Re: Infinity

Posted 3/7/2018 3:13:24 PM

Amusingly, four days after posting some idle musings on the practical implications of handling infinity, and quite by coincidence, I encounter a long-standing bug in Saxon caused by a failure to recognise that an infinite set is not necessarily a universal set: https://saxonica.plan.io/issues/3713 . . . Read full entry »


Re: What is beautiful XML?

Posted 3/7/2018 10:01:27 AM

I will suppose that first of all beautiful XML would have to qualify as being sane http://www.flightlab.com/~joe/sgml/sanity.txtverbosity in XML is not considered a problem, but verbosity is  relative. XML is itself more verbose than some other data serialization formats, but when an XML dialect is . . . Read full entry »


XQuery for managing svg resources?

Posted 3/6/2018 2:13:44 PM

I'm looking for examples/projects managing a large number of svg resources as Code, that is to say with a large view towards reusability. Anyone have any examples? Thanks,Bryan Rasmussen . . . Read full entry »


Re: Infinity

Posted 3/6/2018 11:21:36 AM

On Sat, Mar 3, 2018 at 2:52 PM, Michael Kay <mike@saxonica.com> wrote:A question of no practical relevance for those on the list who are more mathematically inclined than I am.From XSD 1.1 part 2 §3.3.13(a) The ·value space· of in . . . Read full entry »


Re: Infinity

Posted 3/6/2018 8:14:35 AM

On Tue, 6 Mar 2018 11:21:36 +0530, Mukul Gandhi wrote: > I think, when a processor like that for XSD 1.1 is made with java language > (as in case of Mike I think), we use underlying implementations of > java.lang.Integer, or the primitive "int" to implement respectively > xs:i . . . Read full entry »


[ANN] Release of XMLmind XML Editor v8.0

Posted 3/5/2018 10:35:25 AM

Release of XMLmind XML Editor v8.0. Best XMLmind XML Editor version ever. Upgrade strongly recommended. - Replaced both the main tool bar and the configuration specific tool bar (e.g. the DITA tool bar) by a single, "structured", tool bar having two button rows. - New "Find and . . . Read full entry »


Re: Infinity

Posted 3/5/2018 8:32:41 AM

> > Billion Laughs ended the possibility of having DTDs on the Web, alas, > even though a corresponding vulnerability existed in JavaScript. > I fail to see why billion laughs is seen as such a big problem. Surely if you do entity expansion lazily, it ceases to be an issue? Michael . . . Read full entry »


Re: Infinity

Posted 3/5/2018 8:27:36 AM

> On Mar 4, 2018, at 10:36 PM, Tim Bray <tbray@textuality.com> wrote: > > > > On Sun, Mar 4, 2018 at 6:36 PM, C. M. Sperberg-McQueen <cmsmcq@blackmesatech.com&g . . . Read full entry »


Re: Infinity

Posted 3/5/2018 12:47:25 AM

On Sun, 2018-03-04 at 21:36 -0800, Tim Bray wrote: > > [...] > Those who remember the > Billion Laughs exploit may also remember that my first-gen "Lark" > processor sailed through it, hah fabulous. Billion Laughs ended the possibility of having DTDs on the Web, alas . . . Read full entry »


RE: Infinity

Posted 3/4/2018 11:23:42 PM

Title: RE: Infinity -----Original Message----- From: Tim Bray [mailto:tbray@textuality.com] ... > So, if I claim it can manage infinite > input, you can't prove me wrong. Fortunately, there's no such thing. Well, not yet . . . Read full entry »


Re: Infinity

Posted 3/4/2018 9:36:36 PM

On Sun, Mar 4, 2018 at 6:36 PM, C. M. Sperberg-McQueen <cmsmcq@blackmesatech.com> wrote: I would not like to have to write the test cases for checking that a conforming processor either accepts a string consisting . . . Read full entry »


Re: Infinity

Posted 3/4/2018 9:27:13 PM

Peter, hello. On 3 Mar 2018, at 22:05, Peter Hunsberger wrote: On Sat, Mar 3, 2018 at 7:33 AM Norman Gray <norman@astro.gla.ac.uk> It will be, but since there are as many elements in that set as there are positive integers ( . . . Read full entry »


Re: Infinity

Posted 3/4/2018 8:36:21 PM

One thing accomplished by the statement about the finite length of lexical representations is that it guarantees that the space of lexical representations is a regular language and can be recognized by a finite state automaton. It is possible to define success conditions for infinite strings read . . . Read full entry »


Re: Infinity

Posted 3/4/2018 7:37:16 PM

Michael Kay <mike@saxonica.com> writes: > ... > So the value space is infinite, but the lexical space is finite. Or > is it? Perhaps the set of finite-length strings is itself infinite? > <> > > <> > Does every integer in . . . Read full entry »


Re: Infinity

Posted 3/4/2018 1:59:06 PM

> I'm fairly sure the set of real numbers has a larger cardinality than the> integers (I say this with some diffidence, though, since I've never covered> this formally, so I'm basing this on a mixture of incidental reading and> Wikipedia).Yes Norman,Here is what Wilipedia sa . . . Read full entry »


Re: Infinity

Posted 3/4/2018 12:31:57 AM

Hi Dimitre, Two different things, go read the Wikipedia page Norman pointed at, as I said it gets it right. The fact that reals are transcendent does not affect their Cantor classification. And yes, I did learn this while is was in grade school, but not in class.... :)On Sat, Mar 3, 2018 at 4:30 PM . . . Read full entry »


Re: Infinity

Posted 3/3/2018 10:17:35 PM

On Sat, 2018-03-03 at 14:30 -0800, Dimitre Novatchev wrote: > > > > The set R of real numbers is denser than the set N of natural numbers > (and equivalently the set of all integers). Right - although the numbers computer people call "real" are actually rational, of cours . . . Read full entry »


Re: Infinity

Posted 3/3/2018 10:05:03 PM

On Sat, Mar 3, 2018 at 7:33 AM Norman Gray <norman@astro.gla.ac.uk> It will be, but since there are as many elements in that set as there are positive integers (they can be put into a one-to-one correspondence), it is no big . . . Read full entry »


Re: Infinity

Posted 3/3/2018 2:30:31 PM

>> of integers. In contrast, the number of real numbers is a 'larger >> infinity' than the number of integers. If you wish to further explore >> this rabbit hole, see <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleph_number> and >> work outwards... >> >> > > Act . . . Read full entry »


Re: Infinity

Posted 3/3/2018 1:33:19 PM

Greetings. On 3 Mar 2018, at 10:56, Elliotte Rusty Harold wrote: Yes, the spec is correct on this point. Every integer has a finite length representation. The infinite part refers to the number of integers, not the length of each integer's string representation. In addition, it might be that . . . Read full entry »


Infinity

Posted 3/3/2018 9:22:10 AM

A question of no practical relevance for those on the list who are more mathematically inclined than I am.From XSD 1.1 part 2 §3.3.13(a) The ·value space· of integer is the infinite set {...,-2,-1,0,1,2,...}.(b) integer has a lexical representation consisting of a fini . . . Read full entry »


Re: Infinity

Posted 3/3/2018 5:56:33 AM

Yes, the spec is correct on this point. Every integer has a finite length representation. The infinite part refers to the number of integers, not the length of each integer's string representation. Now because it's infinite, there is no longest string. Given any string you claim is the longest, I . . . Read full entry »


Re: What is beautiful XML?

Posted 3/2/2018 6:36:07 PM

+1 ! Christophe Le 01/03/2018 à 18:37, Tony Graham a écrit : On 28/02/2018 20:01, Imsieke, Gerrit, le-tex wrote: ... What is a beautiful XSLT transformation? Occurrence of xsl:next-match, possibly also with one or more tunneled parameters, often serves as an indicator of an elegant XSLT tr . . . Read full entry »


Re: What is beautiful XML?

Posted 3/1/2018 5:37:23 PM

On 28/02/2018 20:01, Imsieke, Gerrit, le-tex wrote: ... What is a beautiful XSLT transformation? Occurrence of xsl:next-match, possibly also with one or more tunneled parameters, often serves as an indicator of an elegant XSLT transformation (and it tells me that the author knows how to virtuo . . . Read full entry »


Re: What is beautiful XML?

Posted 2/28/2018 9:58:22 PM

not sure{?xml version="1.0"?}{foo}some content{/foo}I fail to see the beauty in thatVan: "Ihe Onwuka" <ihe.onwuka@gmail.com>Aan: "Roger L. Costello" <costello@m...>Cc: "xml-dev" <xml-dev@l...>Verzonden: Woensdag 28 februari 2018 . . . Read full entry »


Re: What is beautiful XML?

Posted 2/28/2018 9:01:33 PM

On 28/02/2018 19:33, Dimitre Novatchev wrote: Extending a little: What is a "beautiful XPath expression"? What you’d regard as beautiful XPath, Dimitre, might be far too concise for other people to comprehend ;) What is a beautiful XSLT transformation? Occurrence of xsl:next-mat . . . Read full entry »


Re: What is beautiful XML?

Posted 2/28/2018 3:50:46 PM

On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 3:49 PM, Ihe Onwuka <ihe.onwuka@gmail.com> wrote:xml that has curves instead of angled brackets.....oops thats JSON.No, that's S-expressions.-- John Cowan          http://vrici.lojban.org/~cowan        cowan@c...Please le . . . Read full entry »


Re: What is beautiful XML?

Posted 2/28/2018 3:49:20 PM

xml that has curves instead of angled brackets.....oops thats JSON.On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 1:04 PM, Costello, Roger L. <costello@mitre.org> wrote: Hi Folks, What do you mean by ‘beautiful XML’? Perhaps you mean something analogous to thi . . . Read full entry »


Re: What is beautiful XML?

Posted 2/28/2018 12:13:42 PM

Hi Roger,On Sat, Feb 24, 2018 at 11:34 PM, Costello, Roger L. <costello@mitre.org> wrote: Is beautiful XML that which says a lot with a little? If so, would you provide an example, please?Yes, to me that's one of the XML kinds which . . . Read full entry »


Re: What is beautiful XML?

Posted 2/28/2018 10:33:17 AM

Extending a little: What is a "beautiful XPath expression"? What is a beautiful XSLT transformation? A beautiful XML-processing problem and beautiful solutions to it? A beautiful schema definition of an XML document? Is the document or the schema "beautiful" :) For me "be . . . Read full entry »


Re: What is beautiful XML?

Posted 2/28/2018 10:02:01 AM

Aesthetics are highly subjective, but I tend to favour the Saint-Exupéry quotation on attaining perfection in design: not when nothing further can be added, but when nothing further can be taken away.XML like that, for me, is beautiful XML.AndrewOn 28 February 2018 at 06:43, Mukul Gandhi <g . . . Read full entry »


Re: What is beautiful XML?

Posted 2/28/2018 8:31:53 AM

The reverse might be epitomized by any SOAP message. On 2/28/2018 5:02 AM, Andrew Sales wrote: Aesthetics are highly subjective, but I tend to favour the Saint-Exupéry quotation on attaining perfection in design: not when nothing further can be added, but when nothing further can be taken away. X . . . Read full entry »


[ANN] Markup Vocabulary Ecosystems - Call for Participation

Posted 2/27/2018 6:11:17 PM

Symposium on Markup Vocabulary Ecosystems a Balisage pre-conference symposium Monday, 30 July 2018 CAMBRiA Hotel, Rockville, MD USA Successful shared markup vocabularies (tag sets, document types, schemas, call them what you will), far from being just lists of tags, are the centers of complex eco . . . Read full entry »


What is beautiful XML?

Posted 2/24/2018 6:04:52 PM

Hi Folks, What do you mean by ‘beautiful XML’? Perhaps you mean something analogous to this: A question I’d asked senior scientists when in college: “What do you mean by ‘beautiful’?” Replies had varied, but a synopsis had crystallized: “Bea . . . Read full entry »


reflecting on XML's 20th anniversary

Posted 2/14/2018 12:46:09 PM

for the attention of readers,The following posts reflect about XML's 20th anniversary.https://www.xml.com/articles/2018/02/10/xml-20/   (Tim Bray's post)http://blog.arcanedomain.com/2018/02/tim-bray-posts-on-the-20th-anniversary-of-xml/ (Noah Mendelsohn citing Tim Bray's post)-- Regards . . . Read full entry »


Re: Re: Is XML only half finished? The X Refactor

Posted 2/13/2018 1:06:49 AM

I collected it, added an example, and put it up at Schematron.com.   I would be interested in any comments, on XML-DEV.RegardsRickOn Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 11:02 PM, Cecil New <cecil.new@gmail.com> wrote:Should make this a Google doc so everyone can view . . . Read full entry »


Re: Is XML only half finished? The X Refactor

Posted 2/12/2018 2:35:16 PM

Ooops, format got lost. Try again. Where is XML thriving? Industrial document production using semantic markup: the traditional SGML market of high complexity, multi-publishing, and long life span.Desktop office formats using XML-in-ZIP: ODF and OOXMLData that has mixed content Data that absolutel . . . Read full entry »


Is XML only half finished? The X Refactor

Posted 2/12/2018 2:32:00 PM

Where is XML thriving? * Industrial document production using semantic markup: the traditional SGML market of high complexity, multi-publishing, and long life span.* Desktop office formats using XML-in-ZIP: ODF and OOXML* Data that has mixed content * Data that absolutely needs schema validation as . . . Read full entry »


Re: Re: Is XML only half finished? The X Refactor

Posted 2/12/2018 12:02:44 PM

Should make this a Google doc so everyone can view and comment on it!On Sun, Feb 11, 2018, 10:35 PM Rick Jelliffe <rjelliffe@allette.com.au> wrote:Ooops, format got lost. Try again. Where is XML thriving? Industrial doc . . . Read full entry »


Re: The DTD summary: the road not taken

Posted 2/12/2018 2:50:57 AM

On Mon, 2018-02-12 at 01:03 -0500, John Cowan wrote: > > [...] The most interesting lost feature was the DTD summary, Yes - we lost a lot with moving away from architectural forms. It's possible xlink would have been different, too, as teh architectural forms counter-proposal might've car . . . Read full entry »


The DTD summary: the road not taken

Posted 2/12/2018 1:03:30 AM

I decided to look past the 1998 1st Edition of XML back to the first draft, internally version 0.01, in 1996 to see what was in that draft that was later removed.  The most interesting lost feature was the DTD summary, a set of processing instructions with a target of "XML" that provided . . . Read full entry »


Re: Happy Birthday, XML!

Posted 2/11/2018 4:05:50 PM

On Sun, 2018-02-11 at 07:54 +0800, Henry Luo wrote: > So it might be time to look into alternatives, like Mark > (https://mark.js.org). :-) One of the strengths of XML is social: it enables people who don't think of themselves as programmers to do significant text processing. Another stre . . . Read full entry »


Re: Happy Birthday, XML!

Posted 2/11/2018 3:28:14 PM

On 11 Feb 2018, at 14:25, Patrick Durusau <patrick@durusau.net> wrote: Michael,If not an alternative syntax, what about a more dynamic reading of XML syntax? Yes, XML lacks complex objects (https://mark.js.org/) as attribute . . . Read full entry »


Re: Happy Birthday, XML!

Posted 2/11/2018 3:18:12 PM

FtanML for the winOn Sun, 11 Feb 2018 at 3:25 pm, Patrick Durusau <patrick@durusau.net> wrote: Michael, If not an alternative syntax, what about a more dynamic reading of XML syntax? Yes, XML lacks complex o . . . Read full entry »


Re: Happy Birthday, XML!

Posted 2/11/2018 2:31:19 PM

The wheel turns.  So we have had 10 years each with SGML winning at the top with long-term industrial and legal documentation from the late 1980s, XML expanding from the middle out from the late 1990s, and JSON winning from the low-end up from the late 2000s.  Is it time for the next thing?   What . . . Read full entry »


Re: Happy Birthday, XML!

Posted 2/11/2018 10:30:59 AM

On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 4:41 AM, Michael Kay <mike@saxonica.com> wrote:We had Yet Another Alternative Syntax for XML presented at XML Prague, under the name SML. I fear that all such efforts are doomed to failure. The benefits of the alternativ . . . Read full entry »


Re: Happy Birthday, XML!

Posted 2/11/2018 9:41:21 AM

We had Yet Another Alternative Syntax for XML presented at XML Prague, under the name SML. I fear that all such efforts are doomed to failure. The benefits of the alternative syntax over XML, however much better it is, aren't great enough to justify the cost of being different. It's like improving . . . Read full entry »


Re: Happy Birthday, XML!

Posted 2/11/2018 9:25:16 AM

Michael, If not an alternative syntax, what about a more dynamic reading of XML syntax? Yes, XML lacks complex objects (https://mark.js.org/) as attribute values but nothing prevents us from inserting such objects into an XML event stream. The nex . . . Read full entry »


Re: Happy Birthday, XML!

Posted 2/11/2018 7:54:47 AM

As said: It seems obvious that the most important thing about XML is that it was the first. People did a lot of that with XML just because there was no other alternative. So it might be time to look into alternatives, . . . Read full entry »


Re: Happy Birthday, XML!

Posted 2/10/2018 7:15:29 PM

And of course we celebrated the birthday today at XML Prague. Michael Kay > On 10 Feb 2018, at 17:48, Lauren Wood <lauren@textuality.com> wrote: > > There's a shorter piece on XML.com, written by Tim Bray. > > https://www . . . Read full entry »


Happy Birthday, XML!

Posted 2/10/2018 5:34:36 PM

Since nobody else seems to bother, I've written a blog post on the occasion of the 20th anniversary of the publication of the XML 1.0 recommendation at http://sgmljs.net/blog/blog1802.html , focussing on XML in the larger markup context. Right now there's also a discussion going on at https://www. . . . Read full entry »


Re: Happy Birthday, XML!

Posted 2/10/2018 9:48:42 AM

There's a shorter piece on XML.com, written by Tim Bray. https://www.xml.com/articles/2018/02/10/xml-20/ cheers, Lauren On Sat, Feb 10, 2018 at 8:34 AM, u123724 <u123724@gmail.com> wrote: > Since nobody else seems to bother, I've written a blog p . . . Read full entry »


[ANN] Call for Participation: Balisage 2018

Posted 2/5/2018 3:45:57 PM

Balisage: The Markup Conference 2018 July 31 — 3, 2018, Rockville, MD (a suburb of Washington, DC) July 30, 2018 — Pre-conference Symposium - Topic to be announced https://www.balisage.net/ Are you interested in open information, reusable documents, and vendor and application independence? Then y . . . Read full entry »


Graphical mapping tools

Posted 1/29/2018 8:17:29 AM

Dear colleagues,what is the state of the art concerning graphical mapping tools? (I mean tools which are based on graphical representations of source and target tree and let the user draw connections.) Have you positive or negative experience? Are there products which enable non-trivial mappings wi . . . Read full entry »


Re: {mark} - a new simple notation that unifies JSON andXML

Posted 1/26/2018 5:16:27 PM

I am afraid that just big companies can specify notations which will become successful because they will also provide engines to process them and because, then, people will be eager to announce that they are experts for them... Anyway, I consider that the a . . . Read full entry »


Re: {mark} - a new simple notation that unifies JSON andXML

Posted 1/26/2018 2:37:21 PM

Just to elaborate a bit more on the issue: Imagine element <price currency="USD">5.00</price> goes through a transformation process to give some output: should it be {span 'Price' ':' ' ' 'USD' '$' 5.00 null ''}, i.e. keep the items as they . . . Read full entry »


Re: {mark} - a new simple notation that unifies JSON and XML

Posted 1/26/2018 2:34:43 PM

I think this new notation will further complicate the world of data formats. The current technology landscape involving XML, JSON and HTML & associated integration technologies seems sufficient to me to provide solutions to existing use cases in this field.Sent from an Android deviceOn Jan 25, . . . Read full entry »


Re: {mark} - a new simple notation that unifies JSON andXML

Posted 1/26/2018 1:37:34 PM

Hi Michael, Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the specific issue of content model for element/object. Here are my thoughts on this specific issue. There are two options here, each with its pros and cons. Option 1: Orthogonal approach, allows any value in ele . . . Read full entry »


Six Things You Need (was) {mark} - a new simple notation that unifiesJSO

Posted 1/26/2018 9:22:34 AM

Michael Kay <mike@saxonica.com>:Getting critical mass in terms of take-up of an idea like this is not easy. Preconditions include:* a clean design* open source implementations for a sufficient number of important platforms* a strong recognition i . . . Read full entry »


Re: {mark} - a new simple notation that unifies JSON andXML

Posted 1/26/2018 1:41:42 AM

Thanks for being precise to add back the whitespaces. On Fri 26/1/18 1:32 AM, Eliot Kimber wrote: I think you meant   {root 'text1 ' {foo} ' text2'} The white space is always significant in . . . Read full entry »


Re: {mark} - a new simple notation that unifies JSON andXML

Posted 1/26/2018 1:20:12 AM

Thanks, Eliot for your fast response. <root>text1 <foo/> text2</root> in Mark would be: {root 'text1' {foo} 'text2'} Regards Henry On Fri 26/1/18 1:04 AM, Eliot Kimber wrote: Ho . . . Read full entry »


{mark} - a new simple notation that unifies JSON and XML

Posted 1/26/2018 12:43:14 AM

Dear all, I am happy to announce the first public beta release of Mark - a simple notation that unifies JSON and XML. You can find out more about it at https://mark.js.org/ Objective Markup Notation, abbreviated as Mark or {mark}, is a new unified notation for . . . Read full entry »


Re: {mark} - a new simple notation that unifies JSON and XML

Posted 1/25/2018 6:39:16 PM

That is also a concern that I have when designing Mark. Should it be generalized to allow any value in content? Do we have any solid usecase for storing number and boolean in content? They are probably not needed for normal mixed content usage.I don't think the absence of a use ca . . . Read full entry »


Re: {mark} - a new simple notation that unifies JSON and XML

Posted 1/25/2018 5:24:36 PM

There are many similarlities with FtanML: https://www.balisage.net/Proceedings/vol10/html/Kay01/BalisageVol10-Kay01.htmlIt's not clear what mixed content ends up looking like: getting that right is one of the key design challenges.Getting critical mass in terms of take-up of an idea like this . . . Read full entry »


Re: {mark} - a new simple notation that unifies JSON and XML

Posted 1/25/2018 12:18:52 PM

I agree with Eliot that without a proper representation of mixed content no new format can  subsume XML.  I would urge you to look at FtanML by Michael Kay and friends at <https://www.balisage.net/Proceedings/vol10/html/Kay01/BalisageVol10-Kay01.html> for something that truly does subsume bot . . . Read full entry »


Re: {mark} - a new simple notation that unifies JSON andXML

Posted 1/25/2018 11:32:35 AM

I think you meant {root 'text1 ' {foo} ' text2'}The white space is always significant in mixed content. But if this is allowed then I think the mixed content requirement is satisfied and in a natural and XML-similar way. Cheers, E.--Eliot Kimberhttp://contrext.com  Fro . . . Read full entry »


Re: {mark} - a new simple notation that unifies JSON andXML

Posted 1/25/2018 11:04:57 AM

How would XML mixed content be encoded  in mark? That is, if I have <root>text1 <foo/> text2</root> What does that look like in mark? Otherwise, based on a first reading, it looks, syntactically, like it is structurally equivalent to XML except as regards attri . . . Read full entry »


Re: Was OOXML's problem that it should have used JSON not XML?

Posted 1/24/2018 3:23:07 PM

I had a project where we first resolved version variants (using a commercial library), then converted to rich XHTML (using a comnercial library), then transformed thst to the target (using xslt2).But one or more simplifying/resolving steps seems the only way to get the information to where it is sw . . . Read full entry »


Re: Was OOXML's problem that it should have used JSON not XML?

Posted 1/24/2018 3:02:11 PM

Sounds good. Sorting out what a character is --when using old pre-unicode non-ascii fonts-- must be tricky.I understand that, in the case of standards documenting pre-existing technologies like ISO/IEC 29500-1, the technology leads and the standard follows.  But now, after 10 years, have there been . . . Read full entry »


Sparksoniq 0.9.1 Spruce: first alpha release

Posted 1/24/2018 1:51:56 PM

Dear all, I am happy to announce the first alpha release of Sparksoniq: 0.9.1 Spruce, under an Apache 2.0 license. You can try it out with its shell and its documentation on http://sparksoniq.org In a nutshell, this is a JSONiq engine [see below what it has to do with XQuery and XML . . . Read full entry »


Re: Was OOXML's problem that it should have used JSON not XML?

Posted 1/24/2018 1:15:04 PM

Hans-Juergen: Yes, the difference is perhaps more in people's expectation of what the information language promises.Michael Kay:  But who would process OOXML using XSLT in that way? I have built several systems that generate OOXML, and one that reads it and substitutes some values, but I think . . . Read full entry »


Re: Was OOXML's problem that it should have used JSON not XML?

Posted 1/24/2018 12:22:06 PM

>(XML-DEVers may not be aware, but one of Murata-san's jobs for the last 10 years has been diligently working through the QA on ISO OOXML, trying to keep up with a moving target, correct where the initial documentation was wrong or speculative or incomplete, and making sure it has the inform . . . Read full entry »


Re: Was OOXML's problem that it should have used JSON notXML?

Posted 1/24/2018 8:22:34 AM

Gareth—generating HTML from the simplified XML is an interesting idea that I had not considered. The approach I took for debugging was to capture the XPath in the OOXML source of the paragraph that ultimately resulted in some DITA element in the final output. From that I could then go bac . . . Read full entry »


Re: Was OOXML's problem that it should have used JSON notXML?

Posted 1/24/2018 4:09:47 AM

Oh that’s interesting to note. We took a very similar approach with a Word-to-S1000D conversion tool that we wrote. We invented some intermediate “FlatXML” schema that resolved all the cruft from the Word XML and provided a springboard for the S1000D data module outputs. The final process . . . Read full entry »


Re: Constraints on the elements in a nested XML tree?

Posted 1/23/2018 11:10:00 PM

On 23 January 2018 at 22:54, Costello, Roger L. <costello@mitre.org> wrote:Hi Folks, I am dealing with XML trees. No id/idrefs. No mixed content. Just plain old properly nested elements. Suppose I have a pile of elements and I want a m . . . Read full entry »


Constraints on the elements in a nested XML tree?

Posted 1/23/2018 10:54:48 PM

Hi Folks, I am dealing with XML trees. No id/idrefs. No mixed content. Just plain old properly nested elements. Suppose I have a pile of elements and I want a machine to assemble them into a tree of properly nested elements. The machine doesn't know the rules for assembly so I must tell it the . . . Read full entry »


Re: Was OOXML's problem that it should have used JSON notXML?

Posted 1/23/2018 9:46:19 PM

See https://github.com/dita4publishers/org.dita4publishers.word2dita This is an XSLT2 framework for producing sophisticated DITA document sets from styled Word documents. The input is Word OOXML.  It makes heavy use of for-each-group to deal with the flat nature of OOXML. Basically the fi . . . Read full entry »


Re: The Einstein Puzzle

Posted 1/23/2018 7:23:33 PM

On Mon, 15 Jan 2018 13:59:59 +0000, "Costello, Roger L." <costello@mitre.org> wrote: | The Einstein Puzzle Gosh, this brought back memories! I saw this in the Reader's Digest a _very_ long time ago, but some details were di . . . Read full entry »


Re: Was OOXML's problem that it should have used JSON not XML?

Posted 1/23/2018 7:11:19 PM

I do not know schema technologies for JSON well.  Unless it can mmic at least XSD schemas for OOXML, JSON-based rewrite of OOXML will simply make things worse.Regards,Makoto2018-01-23 18:39 GMT+09:00 Michael Kay <mike@saxonica.com>:No, I don't . . . Read full entry »


Was OOXML's problem that it should have used JSON not XML?

Posted 1/23/2018 2:58:56 PM

Here's a thought.  OOXML (Office Open XML) is criticized for being like a dump of MS Office's binary format: it is not altogether unfair because the aim was to completely represent the native format and much of that was simply not "semantic" let alone elegant.  But it meant that s . . . Read full entry »


Re: Was OOXML's problem that it should have used JSON not XML?

Posted 1/23/2018 10:21:55 AM

There's another challenge with converting this kind of material to JSON <w:p> <w:pPr> <w:pStyle w:val="Heading1"/> </w:pPr> <w:r><w:t>Favorites</w:t></w:r> </w:p> There's a heavy dependence on sibling relationships here: the st . . . Read full entry »


Re: Was OOXML's problem that it should have used JSON not XML?

Posted 1/23/2018 9:39:48 AM

No, I don't think encoding this stuff in JSON rather than XML would have made it one iota more accessible. The problem is that it was designed bottom-up rather than top-down: it offers what's easiest for the implementation to deliver, not what is most convenient for the users to digest. We've done . . . Read full entry »


Re: Was OOXML's problem that it should have used JSON notXML?

Posted 1/23/2018 8:10:43 AM

Very interesting thought. At first, I was at a loss what you meant - in my opinion, XML technology is without serious competitor concerning the art of addressing information, and, by implication, the disciplines of navigation, extraction, aggregation, transformation. So why should something be "rea . . . Read full entry »


JAXB using XSD 1.1

Posted 1/20/2018 11:59:14 AM

Hello,    Is anyone aware, that is there any movement within the JAXB community to release a version that supports XSD 1.1?-- Regards,Mukul Gandhi . . . Read full entry »


AW: Schema aware XSLT runtime error - is it a bug?

Posted 1/17/2018 5:42:13 AM

Thank you Mike. I can see that this bug is already solved in the Saxon 9.8 trunk. I will update the Oxygen Forum Entry. Frank Steimke Von: mike@saxonica.com [mailto:mike@saxonica.com] Ge . . . Read full entry »


RE: Schema aware XSLT runtime error - is it a bug?

Posted 1/16/2018 10:35:48 PM

This is followed up as a Saxon bug here:https://saxonica.plan.io/issues/3628Michael KaySaxonica----- Original Message ----- From: mike@saxonica.com [mailto:mike@saxonica.com] To: f-steimke@b..., xml-dev@l... Cc: support@o... Sent: Tue, 16 . . . Read full entry »


RE: Schema aware XSLT runtime error - is it a bug?

Posted 1/16/2018 6:54:26 PM

Interesting.Saxon is creating the <tns:t> element with a type annotation of xs:string (rather than tns:T). The code does this quite deliberately, but I cannot find anything in the specs to justify it. The spec that defines how type annotations are established is the XDM data model, §3.3.1.1, . . . Read full entry »


Schema aware XSLT runtime error - is it a bug?

Posted 1/16/2018 6:41:19 PM

Dear list, i have an schema aware XSLT script which leads to a runtime error: type mismatch. I don't understand that error, and think it may be a bug, so I wrote an entry in the Oxygen Forum (see https://www.oxygenxml.com/forum/topic15402.html). The Oxygen staff has tested with different versions o . . . Read full entry »


Re: The Einstein Puzzle

Posted 1/16/2018 10:58:57 AM

Nice to see this!One angle I would say is that the SAT terminology "constraint" is somewhat different from the schema terminology of "constraint".  Schemas don't say that the Englishman lives in the red house, they say that all Englishmen we are interested in live in red hou . . . Read full entry »


The Einstein Puzzle

Posted 1/15/2018 1:59:59 PM

Hi Folks,   Scenario: You create an XML Schema that specifies the structure of XML instances. You create a Schematron schema that specifies constraints.   Sometimes constraints are complex. In such cases it may not be immediately obvious what instances satisfy the constraints. The Ei . . . Read full entry »


Re: MIME type versus stand-alone format?

Posted 1/12/2018 6:27:15 PM

                 vCard is now not only a MIME type                but a stand-alone format.  What does that mean?I suspect that they are us . . . Read full entry »


MIME type versus stand-alone format?

Posted 1/12/2018 5:59:59 PM

Hi Folks,   In Microsoft Outlook you can create "contacts." You can export a contact. The exported contact is formatted as a vCard (virtual card). It contains things like name, address, email, telephone, etc.   The vCard specification had its origins way back in 1996. Since . . . Read full entry »


Re: Schematron tip: Use only one pattern

Posted 1/12/2018 10:17:10 AM

Traditionally Saxon organizes patterns into groups based on the element name. If we can tell statically what element name the pattern matches, and if there are relatively few patterns for each element name, then you get very good matching performance. If there are many patterns for a given element . . . Read full entry »


Re: Schematron tip: Use only one pattern

Posted 1/12/2018 9:58:50 AM

On 22.12.2017 13:53, Costello, Roger L. wrote: > It's no wonder that validation was so slow. > > My fix was to get rid of 29 patterns and put all the rules into one pattern. After doing that validation ran much faster. Alternative solution is to rewrite way how Schematron gets compiled i . . . Read full entry »


A web of documents?

Posted 1/9/2018 7:02:13 AM

Seemingly forgotten? W3C redressing the balance https://www.w3.org/blog/2018/01/what-does-the-publishing-industry-bring-to-the-web/ regards -- Dave Pawson XSLT XSL-FO FAQ. Docbook FAQ. . . . Read full entry »


Re: Need a language whiz: An XML Schema "specifies" howdata is

Posted 1/8/2018 8:20:30 PM

I still don't see what the novelty of "epischemas" is supposed to be, apart from giving a name (which is welcome).   James Clark did this parallel grammar technique for HTML IIRC, as a way to reconstruct SGML's exclusion exceptions (i.e. that an <a> could not contain an < . . . Read full entry »


Re: Need a language whiz: An XML Schema "specifies" howdata is

Posted 1/8/2018 12:52:30 PM

On 08/01/2018 11:14, Tony Graham wrote: On 08/01/2018 09:20, Rick Jelliffe wrote: I still don't see what the novelty of "epischemas" is supposed to be,  apart from giving a name (which is welcome).   James Clark did this  parallel grammar technique for HTML IIRC, as a way to reconstru . . . Read full entry »


Re: Need a language whiz: An XML Schema "specifies" howdata is

Posted 1/8/2018 10:14:56 AM

On 08/01/2018 09:20, Rick Jelliffe wrote: I still don't see what the novelty of "epischemas" is supposed to be, apart from giving a name (which is welcome). James Clark did this parallel grammar technique for HTML IIRC, as a way to reconstruct SGML's IIRC, Gerrit did refer to James . . . Read full entry »


Re: Need a language whiz: An XML Schema "specifies" howdata is

Posted 1/8/2018 7:43:33 AM

On 07/01/2018 22:17, Andrew Sales wrote: It's a reality which (again) the publishing sector has been living with since ever publishers started using markup. They acknowledge or cope with it to a greater or lesser degree: the old-style trope was to have an "authoring DTD" and a "pu . . . Read full entry »


Re: Need a language whiz: An XML Schema "specifies" howdata is

Posted 1/7/2018 10:17:24 PM

It's a reality which (again) the publishing sector has been living with since ever publishers started using markup.They acknowledge or cope with it to a greater or lesser degree: the old-style trope was to have an "authoring DTD" and a "publishing DTD", the latter more finel . . . Read full entry »


Re: References to unparsed entities

Posted 1/6/2018 7:13:47 PM

On Sat, Jan 6, 2018 at 6:14 PM, Ronald Bourret <rpbourret@rpbourret.com> wrote:Section 4.4.9 states: "The following ... constitute fatal errors: the appearance of a reference to an unparsed entity, except in the EntityValue . . . Read full entry »


Re: References to unparsed entities

Posted 1/6/2018 4:41:59 PM

Thanks. I hadn't noticed the difference between error and fatal error. -- Ronb On 1/6/2018 4:13 PM, John Cowan wrote: On Sat, Jan 6, 2018 at 6:14 PM, Ronald Bourret <rpbourret@rpbourret.com <mailto:rpb . . . Read full entry »


References to unparsed entities

Posted 1/6/2018 3:14:34 PM

Section 4.4.9 states: "The following ... constitute fatal errors: the appearance of a reference to an unparsed entity, except in the EntityValue in an entity declaration." Section 4.4.9 states: "It is an error for a reference to an unparsed entity to appear in the EntityValue i . . . Read full entry »


Parameter entities in internal subset

Posted 1/6/2018 3:09:41 PM

I haven't been here for quite a while, so hello to everyone. As a way to learn git, I've been fixing some ancient bugs in my DTD Parser, and that has led me to the Joy of Entities. I understand the intent, but am missing a few details and the deeper I dig, the more my head spins. Section 2.8 ( . . . Read full entry »


Re: Need a language whiz: An XML Schema "specifies" how data i

Posted 1/6/2018 9:13:12 AM

> > Theoretically, although I have never seen it with XSD and would > probably think it was a weird use of the language, you could have > multiple schemas for validating documents in the same namespace. I have seen one client who was attempting to do this: essentially applying stricte . . . Read full entry »


Re: Need a language whiz: An XML Schema "specifies" howdata is

Posted 1/5/2018 3:01:21 PM

Theoretically, although I have never seen it with XSD and would probably think it was a weird use of the language, you could have multiple schemas for validating documents in the same namespace. This is implied by some of the other emails in this thread, where one has a chain of validations, and ea . . . Read full entry »


Re: Need a language whiz: An XML Schema "specifies" howdata is

Posted 1/5/2018 10:26:41 AM

This is not really an answer, but I wonder whether we are being hampered by a category error, that we should be seeing validators as kinds of expert systems, now that AI is regarded positively again?A schema is the ruleset for an expert system that uses XML documents as inputs.  The expert system m . . . Read full entry »


Re: Need a language whiz: An XML Schema "specifies" how data i

Posted 1/5/2018 7:28:27 AM

Greetings, and thank you all for your comments and hints. They are indeed very helpful. I totally agree that validation and assessment is only half the story. We can think of many reasons why we have to reject a document eventually, although it has passed the validation and assessment phases. Mayb . . . Read full entry »


Re: Need a language whiz: An XML Schema "specifies" howdata is

Posted 1/4/2018 4:06:58 PM

Greetings. On 4 Jan 2018, at 14:46, John Cowan wrote: But it seems to me that this is only half of assessment: if a document is valid, you may still decide to reject it for any of a variety of reasons: This, many times! I think people often become obsessed by XML validation, apparently forg . . . Read full entry »


Re: Need a language whiz: An XML Schema "specifies" howdata is

Posted 1/4/2018 1:46:51 PM

SGML has the idea of a "document type" which had a "definition", part of which was achieved by the "declarations" i.e. the DTD.  Due to the limitations of any schema language, the document type definition would never be entirely specified using the various declarations . . . Read full entry »


Re: AW: Need a language whiz: An XML Schema "specifies" howdat

Posted 1/4/2018 11:33:37 AM

FWIW, I draw the distinction conceptually but not verbally: I tend to think of the process of "validation" as not producing a binary, pass/fail result. It may do that, but in addition, there may be other advisory (warning/info etc) messages that require further judgement or intervention.  . . . Read full entry »


Re: AW: Need a language whiz: An XML Schema "specifies" howdat

Posted 1/4/2018 11:25:28 AM

We had exactly the same problems, with UBL-invoice also. We did a XSD validation, then a schematron validation to check the specific UBL-invoice uses of the context. The result of these two validations decided if a XML document was "conform", so acceptable or not. This was a technical . . . Read full entry »


Re: Need a language whiz: An XML Schema "specifies" howdata is

Posted 1/4/2018 9:46:23 AM

On Thu, Jan 4, 2018 at 1:59 AM, Frank Steimke <f-steimke@berger-und-steimke.de> wrote:  It means: decide whether you will accept or reject the message. This decision is of course based on the re . . . Read full entry »


Re: AW: Need a language whiz: An XML Schema "specifies"how dat

Posted 1/4/2018 3:11:31 AM

On Thu, 2018-01-04 at 07:59 +0100, Frank Steimke wrote: > [...] > We are pretty much interested about comments from the experts, > whether the distinction between these two phrases (and phases) makes > sense and seems to be useful. Since you've described it clearly it makes sense, at . . . Read full entry »


Re: Need a language whiz: An XML Schema "specifies" how data i

Posted 1/3/2018 4:24:55 PM

The essence of the semantics of XSD is that the specification defines a process, variously called "validation" or "assessment", that takes a schema and an instance document as input and produces an assessment outcome as its result. assess(schema, instance) => outcome (It's . . . Read full entry »


Re: Need a language whiz: An XML Schema "specifies" howdata is

Posted 1/3/2018 3:40:55 PM

The word choices betray viewpoints of reality - stating or specifying how data is to be structured assumes a blank canvas and the schema tells you how that canvas may be filled constrains assumes that data is a realm of many, perhaps infinite possibilities, XML Schema then constrains or limits the . . . Read full entry »


Re: Schematron tip: Use only one pattern

Posted 12/22/2017 6:10:10 PM

>Recall that a Schematron schema is converted to an XSLT program.Most users do use a/the XSLT implementation, but other, non-XSLT implementations are available. They may well handle patterns differently.On 22 December 2017 at 14:27, Imsieke, Gerrit, le-tex <gerrit.imsieke@le . . . Read full entry »


Re: Unexpected Ambiguous Model in XSD Schema

Posted 12/22/2017 5:18:53 PM

My guess it that given an instance like:<figure><img/></figure>the schema can figure out whether it is the type with maxOccurs="unbounded" or the type with minOccurs="1 maxOccurs="1"maybe minOccurs=2 maxOccurs="unbounded" would fix it.DanOn Fri, . . . Read full entry »


Re: Schematron tip: Use only one pattern

Posted 12/22/2017 3:27:09 PM

One reason for the acceleration could be that only the first matching rule within a pattern will be applied/evaluated. Roger, you might want to check whether the number of failed-asserts and successful-reports in the resulting SVRLs is the same for each scenario. It probably isn’t. So putting a . . . Read full entry »



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