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The XML-DEV Blog

The XML-DEV email discussion forum was started nearly 10 years ago by Dr. Peter Murray-Rust and Dr. Henry Rzepa of Imperial College (UK), covering XML development topics including XML standards, XML specifications, and technical questions related to the eXtensible Markup Language. The XML-DEV Blog brings the XML-DEV community into the blogging era, enabling XML developers to easily follow the hottest threads in the blogosphere.

Re: Recommended way to extend Schematron?

Posted 5/8/2013 2:37:19 PM

Roger, Being only slightly snarky (in my first suggestion), I can suggest three possibilities that may be worth consideration: 1) XQuery 1.0 is computationally complete and can be used to write functions that perform those calculations; under several implementations, it is possible to invoke . . . Read full entry »

Re: Recommended way to extend Schematron?

Posted 5/8/2013 2:37:19 PM

Re: Recommended way to extend Schematron?

Posted 5/7/2013 10:55:52 PM

Hi Roger, Here there are a couple of additional possibilities: Skeleton and also our oXygen's Skeleton-based Schematron implementation have a parameter that allows foreign elements - that can be used to pass over XSLT code from your Schematron file to the generated stylesheet, for example if . . . Read full entry »

Re: Recommended way to extend Schematron?

Posted 5/7/2013 10:55:52 PM

RE: Recommended way to extend Schematron?

Posted 5/7/2013 6:54:47 PM

Hi Roger, I recently had to do something similar. I used the ExtensionFunction interface in saxon to define extensions based on java libraries, and was able to call them from XML schema 1.1 assert elements. I was wondering about using "pure xpath" but I could not figure out a way to d . . . Read full entry »

RE: Recommended way to extend Schematron?

Posted 5/7/2013 6:54:47 PM

Recommended way to extend Schematron?

Posted 5/7/2013 6:02:09 PM

Hi Folks, Suppose my Schematron assertions need to do some math calculations – cosine, sine, tangent, etc. I am using XPath 2.0 in my Schematron assertions. But XPath 2.0 doesn’t support functions for cosine, sine, tangent, etc. What is the recommended way to ex . . . Read full entry »

Recommended way to extend Schematron?

Posted 5/7/2013 6:02:09 PM

Re: Recommended way to extend Schematron?

Posted 5/7/2013 2:59:22 PM

On 5/7/13 2:02 PM, Costello, Roger L. wrote: > Hi Folks, > > Suppose my Schematron assertions need to do some math calculations – > cosine, sine, tangent, etc. > > I am using XPath 2.0 in my Schematron assertions. But XPath 2.0 doesn’t > support functions for cos . . . Read full entry »

Re: Recommended way to extend Schematron?

Posted 5/7/2013 2:59:22 PM

Major updates to MicroXML articles

Posted 5/7/2013 2:56:27 PM

Hi folks. Today IBM published updated versions of my introductory articles on MicroXMLhttp://www.ibm.com/developerworks/library/x-microxml1/ Many changes throughout, but for example based on the current draft in which namespace are completely banned.http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/library/x-micr . . . Read full entry »

Major updates to MicroXML articles

Posted 5/7/2013 2:56:27 PM

Re: Musings on the fundamental nature of data

Posted 5/6/2013 1:37:58 PM

Kurt,What a helpful and insightful post. Thank you.For my own claa model itself is simply a mechanism for imposing a working order upon reality in order to manipulate that reality in some wayrification:- with evolutionary systems, there are typically variables that can be maddeningly difficult to q . . . Read full entry »

Re: Musings on the fundamental nature of data

Posted 5/6/2013 1:37:58 PM

Pseudo validation to extract Schematic information

Posted 5/6/2013 12:16:12 PM

I would like to tag an instance to identifying occurences of schema aggregates (e.g groups or complexTypes) within the instance.I haven't got a schema to start with so plan A is to generate one with Examplotron and then see if I can tag the instance with whatever aggregates I get from it. The . . . Read full entry »

Pseudo validation to extract Schematic information

Posted 5/6/2013 12:16:12 PM

Re: Musings on the fundamental nature of data

Posted 5/5/2013 11:49:40 AM

Tim, Man-made domains have the benefit that the variables that affect these domains are usually reasonable transparent and discrete, whereas with evolutionary systems, there are typically variables that can be maddeningly difficult to qualify, let alone quantify, in part because phase transitions i . . . Read full entry »

Re: Musings on the fundamental nature of data

Posted 5/5/2013 11:49:40 AM

XSLT 3.0 Relax NG Schema

Posted 5/4/2013 10:23:49 PM

Dear XSLT Fans, For people eager to start playing with bleeding edge XSLT 3.0 Relax NG http://www.sharexml.com/x/get?k=NDGu7yBYGAUC Relax NG Compact http://www.sharexml.com/x/get?k=gfC5oPhTcGjx Best regards, Xmlizer . . . Read full entry »

XSLT 3.0 Relax NG Schema

Posted 5/4/2013 10:23:49 PM

Re: Musings on the fundamental nature of data

Posted 5/4/2013 5:41:23 PM

On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 2:26 PM, Costello, Roger L. <costello@mitre.org> wrote: > > Assertion: The most fundamental issue with data exchange is: > > What worldview do you want replicated? I fully support this assertion. In s . . . Read full entry »

Re: Musings on the fundamental nature of data

Posted 5/4/2013 5:41:23 PM

[ann] A series of 3 webinars: "XSLT development with oXygen XML Editor"

Posted 5/3/2013 7:57:51 PM

Hi all, I am happy to invite you to attend our XSLT development webinars where we will show our 12 years of work (since 2001) to provide an IDE for developing XSLT stylesheets. XSLT is in fact the best supported XML-related technology in oXygen and we cover almost any aspect of XSLT developme . . . Read full entry »

[ann] A series of 3 webinars: "XSLT development with oXygen XML Editor"

Posted 5/3/2013 7:57:51 PM

Re: XML's greatest cultural advantage over JSON

Posted 5/2/2013 4:43:30 PM

PHP and Javascript can transfer simple data in a very simple and straightforward way with JSON. <?php $mydata = array("ok"=>true, "points"=>array( 0=>455.11,1=>552.4,2=>552.9)); echo json_encode($mydata); ?> <script type="javascript"> . . . Read full entry »

Re: XML's greatest cultural advantage over JSON

Posted 5/2/2013 4:43:30 PM

CSS selectors as superpowers

Posted 5/2/2013 3:33:27 PM

Continuing some of the discussion on flexible processing of markup, here's a piece I think is a key part of the stack. Pattern matching, which can link presentation, behavior, and other information to documents. <http://programming.oreilly.com/2013/05/css-selectors-as-superpowers.html> . . . Read full entry »

CSS selectors as superpowers

Posted 5/2/2013 3:33:27 PM

Re: XML's greatest cultural advantage over JSON

Posted 5/1/2013 3:23:09 PM

Aw heck, let's just do the simplest thing possible. <!DOCTYPE moreMetaThanThou [ <ELEMENT moreMetaThanThou (turtle+) > <!ATTLIST moreMetaThanThou Id ID #IMPLIED > <!ELEMENT turtle (value+)> <!ATTLIST turtle=20 Id ID #IMPLIED> <!ELEMENT v . . . Read full entry »

Re: Musings on the fundamental nature of data

Posted 4/30/2013 8:56:09 AM

Hi Roger, I think you might have missed an important aspect: - change. Usually the focus is very narrow - on something which changes.The changes can be modelled as a series of states and the purpose of the sending / receiving is to synchronise those states, so as to allow the changing 'worldv . . . Read full entry »

Re: Musings on the fundamental nature of data

Posted 4/30/2013 8:56:09 AM

Re: XML's greatest cultural advantage over JSON

Posted 4/29/2013 9:55:23 PM

On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 2:52 PM, Andrew Welch <andrew.j.welch@gmail.com> wrote: One of the reasons for the 'hackable xml' idea that eventually prompted the MicroXML discussions was because of this. Â If you stripped away s . . . Read full entry »

Re: XML's greatest cultural advantage over JSON

Posted 4/29/2013 9:55:23 PM

Re: XML's greatest cultural advantage over JSON

Posted 4/29/2013 7:52:38 PM

>> If only there was a simple api for xml... that was actually simple :) >> I'm sure the list could come up with a new one. >> > > I hate the term "impedance mismatch", but it captures well the idea that processing data is always going to be far easier if you use . . . Read full entry »

Re: XML's greatest cultural advantage over JSON

Posted 4/29/2013 7:52:38 PM

Musings on the fundamental nature of data

Posted 4/29/2013 5:26:11 PM

Hi Folks, The subject line is the short title. Here is the longer title: Musings on the fundamental nature of the knowledge that is captured from a domain expert and the subsequent exchange of that knowledge as data Consider this scenario: You conduct multiple in-depth discussions . . . Read full entry »

Musings on the fundamental nature of data

Posted 4/29/2013 5:26:11 PM

Re: XML's greatest cultural advantage over JSON

Posted 4/29/2013 5:26:00 PM

> > > If only there was a simple api for xml... that was actually simple :) > I'm sure the list could come up with a new one. > I hate the term "impedance mismatch", but it captures well the idea that processing data is always going to be far easier if you use a progra . . . Read full entry »

Re: XML's greatest cultural advantage over JSON

Posted 4/29/2013 5:26:00 PM

Re: XML's greatest cultural advantage over JSON

Posted 4/29/2013 3:10:54 PM

Maybe there's just a bit of jealousy and Aesop's'sour grapes' on the part of those choosing againstbetter XML adoption - when developers see it making bucks for the big sellers and enterprises and when sellers see it making life easier for their competitors,etc, but I wouldn't . . . Read full entry »

Re: XML's greatest cultural advantage over JSON

Posted 4/29/2013 3:10:54 PM

Re: XML's greatest cultural advantage over JSON

Posted 4/29/2013 3:03:18 PM

I noticed I might have seemed to contradict my own argument there in that MS did facilitate (as far as I've heard) AJAX but didn't push through to wide adoptionthe XML Island technology (and didn't continue XSLT support in IE beyond XSLT 1.0). I guess the difference*might* be that, if . . . Read full entry »

Re: XML's greatest cultural advantage over JSON

Posted 4/29/2013 3:03:18 PM

Re: XML's greatest cultural advantage over JSON

Posted 4/29/2013 2:54:52 PM

Mmmm. XML adoption into other technologies (the ones typically paidfor in moderate or 'expensive' license fees, etc and used byenterprises with the will to invest and consciousness of a likely ROI) like RDBMSs was well championed by the sellers of those technologies. It seems to me that br . . . Read full entry »

Re: XML's greatest cultural advantage over JSON

Posted 4/29/2013 2:54:52 PM

Re: XML's greatest cultural advantage over JSON

Posted 4/29/2013 2:10:05 PM

Is the major blocker something to do with developerswanting everything to be free and take minimal effortin areas of software technology, whereas with the moreexpensive RDBMSs and app frameworks (expensive for their tools support, etc at least) the will to invest timeand effort is already there su . . . Read full entry »

Re: XML's greatest cultural advantage over JSON

Posted 4/29/2013 2:10:05 PM

Re: XML's greatest cultural advantage over JSON

Posted 4/29/2013 2:02:24 PM

Just comparing the time it took for XML to be adequatelysupported in RDBMSs and application frameworks like.NET and Java and the time it has taken for it to be adequately supported in Javascript (and browsers for that matter) andyou get the idea the latter have either been rather tardy orhave lack . . . Read full entry »

Re: XML's greatest cultural advantage over JSON

Posted 4/29/2013 2:02:24 PM

RE: XML's greatest cultural advantage over JSON

Posted 4/29/2013 1:35:32 PM

Stephen, MicroXML, like XML before it, failed to explicitly acknowledge the architecture of the Web, so it will fail on the Web too, IMHO. Failure on the web has little to do with namespaces, which is the dominant 'problem' addressed by MicroXML. If it had included simple hy . . . Read full entry »

RE: XML's greatest cultural advantage over JSON

Posted 4/29/2013 1:35:32 PM

Re: XML's greatest cultural advantage over JSON

Posted 4/29/2013 1:30:37 PM

I noticed MicroXML has meen mentioned a few times in this thread, but frankly not in an interesting way until...On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 12:52 PM, Andrew Welch <andrew.j.welch@gmail.com> wrote: One of the reasons for the 'hackable xml . . . Read full entry »

Re: XML's greatest cultural advantage over JSON

Posted 4/29/2013 1:30:37 PM

RE: XML's greatest cultural advantage over JSON

Posted 4/29/2013 12:49:29 PM

Hi, > -----Original Message----- > From: Jirka Kosek [mailto:jirka@kosek.cz] > > XML had a chance with an open-minded crowd of people eager > to embrace > > it. By and large, we utterly failed to convince them. Once other . . . Read full entry »

RE: XML's greatest cultural advantage over JSON

Posted 4/29/2013 12:49:29 PM

Re: XML's greatest cultural advantage over JSON

Posted 4/29/2013 12:12:18 PM

>> XML had a chance with an open-minded crowd of people eager to embrace >> it. By and large, we utterly failed to convince them. Once other >> options emerged, they ran there. > > I think that story is different. Javascript in browser doesn't have > usable XML API (DO . . . Read full entry »

Re: XML's greatest cultural advantage over JSON

Posted 4/29/2013 12:12:18 PM

Re: XML's greatest cultural advantage over JSON

Posted 4/29/2013 10:50:06 AM

On 28.4.2013 14:22, Simon St.Laurent wrote: > XML had a chance with an open-minded crowd of people eager to embrace > it. By and large, we utterly failed to convince them. Once other > options emerged, they ran there. I think that story is different. Javascript in browser doesn't have . . . Read full entry »

Re: XML's greatest cultural advantage over JSON

Posted 4/29/2013 10:50:06 AM

Re: XML's greatest cultural advantage over JSON

Posted 4/29/2013 10:50:06 AM

Re: XML's greatest cultural advantage over JSON

Posted 4/29/2013 10:50:06 AM

Re: XML's greatest cultural advantage over JSON

Posted 4/29/2013 10:50:06 AM

Re: XML's greatest cultural advantage over JSON

Posted 4/29/2013 10:50:06 AM

Re: XML's greatest cultural advantage over JSON

Posted 4/29/2013 10:50:06 AM

Re: XML's greatest cultural advantage over JSON

Posted 4/29/2013 10:50:06 AM

Re: XML's greatest cultural advantage over JSON

Posted 4/29/2013 10:50:06 AM

Re: XML's greatest cultural advantage over JSON

Posted 4/29/2013 10:50:06 AM

Re: XML's greatest cultural advantage over JSON

Posted 4/29/2013 10:08:58 AM

On 4/29/13 9:36 AM, Michael Sokolov wrote: > Browsers have always represented an impoverished development environment > targeted to the broadest possible audience. Unlike more traditional > apps (desktop, server), they are constrained by having to run > everywhere, on every device, wi . . . Read full entry »

Re: XML's greatest cultural advantage over JSON

Posted 4/29/2013 10:08:58 AM

Re: XML's greatest cultural advantage over JSON

Posted 4/29/2013 9:36:06 AM

Browsers have always represented an impoverished development environment targeted to the broadest possible audience. Unlike more traditional apps (desktop, server), they are constrained by having to run everywhere, on every device, with a single programming language (ok, there used to be . . . Read full entry »

Re: XML's greatest cultural advantage over JSON

Posted 4/29/2013 9:36:06 AM

Re: XML's greatest cultural advantage over JSON

Posted 4/29/2013 9:36:06 AM

Re: XML's greatest cultural advantage over JSON

Posted 4/29/2013 9:36:06 AM

Re: XML's greatest cultural advantage over JSON

Posted 4/29/2013 9:36:06 AM

Re: XML's greatest cultural advantage over JSON

Posted 4/29/2013 9:36:06 AM

Re: XML's greatest cultural advantage over JSON

Posted 4/29/2013 9:36:06 AM

Re: XML's greatest cultural advantage over JSON

Posted 4/29/2013 9:36:06 AM

Re: XML's greatest cultural advantage over JSON

Posted 4/29/2013 9:36:06 AM

Re: XML's greatest cultural advantage over JSON

Posted 4/29/2013 9:36:06 AM

Re: XML's greatest cultural advantage over JSON

Posted 4/29/2013 9:33:55 AM

On 4/29/13 4:50 AM, Jirka Kosek wrote: > Javascript in browser doesn't have > usable XML API (DOM is simply ... DOM), but evaluating JSON with eval() > at that time was very easy (do you still remember E4X?). Also given the > browser security model you are unable to fetch cross-site X . . . Read full entry »

Re: XML's greatest cultural advantage over JSON

Posted 4/29/2013 9:33:55 AM

Re: Transformational reciprocity (was XML's greatest

Posted 4/29/2013 9:12:51 AM

On 4/29/13 3:56 AM, Fraser Goffin wrote: > Whilst those of us who work as integrators quite naturally accept that > transformation between data formats is a given, that is not to say > that we shouldn't actively seek transformation avoidance policies > where-ever that is possible. Stan . . . Read full entry »

Re: Transformational reciprocity (was XML's greatest

Posted 4/29/2013 9:12:51 AM

Re: XML's greatest cultural advantage over JSON

Posted 4/29/2013 9:01:17 AM

On 04/29/2013 07:12 AM, Andrew Welch wrote: > That is essentially it - processing xml using javascript in the > browser was hard, processing json was easier. It's all about the > apis. For me, it's all about the data. Data have (unknowable) value irrespective of any software. Machin . . . Read full entry »

Re: XML's greatest cultural advantage over JSON

Posted 4/29/2013 9:01:17 AM

Re: Transformational reciprocity (was XML'sgreatest

Posted 4/29/2013 8:56:43 AM

Whilst those of us who work as integrators quite naturally accept that transformation between data formats is a given, that is not to say that we shouldn't actively seek transformation avoidance policies where-ever that is possible. Standardising exchanges between known trading partners and betwee . . . Read full entry »

Re: Transformational reciprocity (was XML'sgreatest

Posted 4/29/2013 8:56:43 AM

Re: XML's greatest cultural advantage over JSON

Posted 4/29/2013 8:26:32 AM

Can explain all this by the simple observation: Hype Cycles http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hype_cycle the hype cycle goes up, then down but then comes back up again and plateaus. It's been so with XML and probably will be with JSON.----Stephen D Green . . . Read full entry »

Re: XML's greatest cultural advantage over JSON

Posted 4/29/2013 8:26:32 AM

Re: JSON, tides and XML

Posted 4/29/2013 1:18:25 AM

On 4/29/13 12:33 AM, w3c@drrw.info wrote: > You are obviously a coffee drinker and I'm offering you teas to sample! Indeed, and thank you for your calmly uncaffeinated (sounding) response. > Maybe that is the real answer here - > > Q. Want to do standard . . . Read full entry »

Re: JSON, tides and XML

Posted 4/29/2013 1:18:25 AM

RE: Transformational reciprocity (was XML'sgreatest

Posted 4/29/2013 1:17:19 AM

<<< All of this brings me back to the opening of this thread, which I don't think you disagree with: XML's greatest cultural advantage over JSON... is that it includes a much richer and more nuanced understanding of transformations. Thanks, -- Simon St.Laurent <<< I agree . . . Read full entry »

RE: Transformational reciprocity (was XML'sgreatest

Posted 4/29/2013 1:17:19 AM

Re: Transformational reciprocity (was XML's greatest

Posted 4/28/2013 9:54:50 PM

On 4/28/13 9:17 PM, David Lee wrote: > I agree only indirectly ... Why do I want transformations ? I don't > do it for fun. You do it for work. If the transformations go away, so do a lot of jobs. You seem to regard transformations as something you have to do, not something you want to . . . Read full entry »

Re: Transformational reciprocity (was XML's greatest

Posted 4/28/2013 9:54:50 PM

RE: JSON, tides and XML

Posted 4/28/2013 9:33:38 PM

Simon,You are obviously a coffee drinker and I'm offering you teas to sample!History of all this is woven into a lot of standards jargon - I can't change all that.Maybe you prefer some Youtube videos to try instead?I still need to record "the completely simple and obvious video" - sans that - there . . . Read full entry »

RE: JSON, tides and XML

Posted 4/28/2013 9:33:38 PM

Re: JSON, tides and XML

Posted 4/28/2013 9:32:01 PM

On 4/28/13 9:15 PM, w3c@drrw.info wrote: > You see - I told you I'm first to do things different - why the heck > would you think I'm using something as ghastly as XSD schema to do > this?! ; -) Instead of schema you seem to be using something much more . . . Read full entry »

Re: JSON, tides and XML

Posted 4/28/2013 9:32:01 PM

Re: JSON, tides and XML

Posted 4/28/2013 8:08:09 PM

On 4/28/13 6:06 PM, w3c@drrw.info wrote: > Adults Yes, this is where is gets ugly. XML folks seem to think they're more grown up than people working with other approaches. Though perhaps the XML community is graying? (I am.) > should really be using XML fo . . . Read full entry »

Re: JSON, tides and XML

Posted 4/28/2013 8:08:09 PM

Re: Transformational reciprocity (was XML's greatest

Posted 4/28/2013 7:49:22 PM

On 4/28/13 1:48 PM, David Lee wrote: >> So you're willing to build transformations to get senders' data >> into your systems. > > Done, piece of cake They send you anything, and you take it? Are you actually processing it, doing something more than storing and sharing the data . . . Read full entry »

Re: Transformational reciprocity (was XML's greatest

Posted 4/28/2013 7:49:22 PM

RE: JSON, tides and XML

Posted 4/28/2013 6:15:21 PM

Simon,You see - I told you I'm first to do things different - why the heck would you think I'm using something as ghastly as XSD schema to do this?! ; -)>>> "Much of my point in this recent conversation - the piece that really seems to make people angry, in any case - is that creating suc . . . Read full entry »

RE: JSON, tides and XML

Posted 4/28/2013 6:15:21 PM

Re: Transformational reciprocity (was XML'sgreatest

Posted 4/28/2013 5:48:45 PM

>> > > So you're willing to build transformations to get senders' data into your systems. Done, piece of cake > > Just one time per conversation, or regularly, or am I misreading that and you're really only willing to let them send you data in your own specified format? For . . . Read full entry »

Re: Transformational reciprocity (was XML'sgreatest

Posted 4/28/2013 5:48:45 PM

JSON, tides and XML

Posted 4/28/2013 3:06:34 PM

Simon,So far what I have seen and done with JSON has utterly underwhelmed me. And I have deployed two systems that use it now.I tend to take the view that JSON is for people who just push buttons in tooling and have no idea what is really going on under the hood. Nothing wrong with that of co . . . Read full entry »

JSON, tides and XML

Posted 4/28/2013 3:06:34 PM

RE: XML's greatest cultural advantage over JSON

Posted 4/28/2013 2:08:31 PM

Ok this is the last for a day ... I need to "get a life" ... -------- No, you're a border guard, defending the XML turf against those strange upstarts. You'll let their data in, if and only if it plays by your rules. (Which is completely and deeply an XML attitude in any case.. . . . Read full entry »

RE: XML's greatest cultural advantage over JSON

Posted 4/28/2013 2:08:31 PM

Re: XML still just a W3C Recommendation?

Posted 4/28/2013 1:39:10 PM

See http://www.sgmlsource.com/8879/n0029.htm The ISO standard details Xml in terms of SGML being careful not to appear as an alternate source cheers Rick On Apr 12, 2013 8:16 AM, "Liam R E Quin" <liam@w3.org> wrote: > I thought there were moves some > time ba . . . Read full entry »

Re: XML still just a W3C Recommendation?

Posted 4/28/2013 1:39:10 PM

RE: XML's greatest cultural advantage over JSON

Posted 4/28/2013 1:31:48 PM

-------- Except that you don't admit that until pressed on the point because you've just been blasting away. Well, okay, you did admit that it's fine for serializing JavaScript objects, the smallest possible use case. ----------- My fault ... I tend to write overtly large emails as it is s . . . Read full entry »

RE: XML's greatest cultural advantage over JSON

Posted 4/28/2013 1:31:48 PM

Transformational reciprocity (was XML's greatest culturaladvan

Posted 4/28/2013 1:12:02 PM

Perfect. We're actually getting somewhere - this is the kind of conversation I want to have. On 4/28/13 10:08 AM, David Lee wrote: > Oh contraire ! I have no problem letting anyone's data into guarded > fortress (*). Almost always it can be converted lossless and > reversible with no . . . Read full entry »

Transformational reciprocity (was XML's greatest culturaladvan

Posted 4/28/2013 1:12:02 PM

RE: XML's greatest cultural advantage over JSON

Posted 4/28/2013 1:00:38 PM

---------------> Simon St. Laurent -----> XML had a chance with an open-minded crowd of people eager to embrace it. By and large, we utterly failed to convince them. Once other options emerged, they ran there. Why do you think the next generation would march the opposite directi . . . Read full entry »

RE: XML's greatest cultural advantage over JSON

Posted 4/28/2013 1:00:38 PM

RE: XML's greatest cultural advantage over JSON

Posted 4/28/2013 12:26:14 PM

Very curious response. I have no problem admitting that the JSON people are using JSON successfully for what THEY want to do. Thats great. But it also doesnt matter to me much as it doesn't solve *my problems* it actualy *creates my problems*. Sorry, selfish. Well ok it helps with giving . . . Read full entry »

RE: XML's greatest cultural advantage over JSON

Posted 4/28/2013 12:26:14 PM

RE: XML's greatest cultural advantage over JSON

Posted 4/28/2013 11:55:06 AM

I totally agree you will never win over JSON advocates with anything else. Or probably the reverse. It is a lost cause. It's like converting a member of <religion_a> to <religion_b> But that doesn't mean talking about it is a lost cause. There are still the next generation (either . . . Read full entry »

RE: XML's greatest cultural advantage over JSON

Posted 4/28/2013 11:55:06 AM

Re: XML's greatest cultural advantage over JSON

Posted 4/28/2013 9:24:24 AM

On 4/28/13 9:00 AM, David Lee wrote: > I am not trying to lead a revolution and lead people to "The True > Way". What I am trying to do in my small way, in bits and pieces, is > to dispel myth and enlighten misconceptions one tiny grain at a > time. or atleast opine. But I . . . Read full entry »

Re: XML's greatest cultural advantage over JSON

Posted 4/28/2013 9:24:24 AM

Re: XML's greatest cultural advantage over JSON

Posted 4/28/2013 9:19:18 AM

Thank you. I have spent the last three weeks fighting with a monstrosity called Ext-js. Paid by the hour to deal with the bastard child of Lisp and Java. Raise please. On Sun, Apr 28, 2013 at 8:26 AM, David Lee <dlee@calldei.com> wrote: Very cu . . . Read full entry »

Re: XML's greatest cultural advantage over JSON

Posted 4/28/2013 9:19:18 AM

Re: XML's greatest cultural advantage over JSON

Posted 4/28/2013 9:13:04 AM

On 4/28/13 8:26 AM, David Lee wrote: > For all of us the world we live in is the things we need to > accomplish. And in MY world JSON absolutely does not hold up to > its promise whatsoever. But I am perfectly happy to admit it works > in other worlds where the model fits. Except . . . Read full entry »

Re: XML's greatest cultural advantage over JSON

Posted 4/28/2013 9:13:04 AM

Re: XML's greatest cultural advantage over JSON

Posted 4/28/2013 8:22:37 AM

On 4/28/13 7:55 AM, David Lee wrote: > There are still the next generation (either by age or change in > vocation or specialty) who have an open mind. This reminds me of another fun point. The "first generation" of folks who turned to JSON had generally been using XML before. S . . . Read full entry »

Re: XML's greatest cultural advantage over JSON

Posted 4/28/2013 8:22:37 AM

Re: XML's greatest cultural advantage over JSON

Posted 4/28/2013 8:09:50 AM

Thanks - this proves my point. (Though I think this is from a different David.) Please go explore more of the world before blasting it as foreign religion. The JSON folks have more and better experience than you're willing to acknowledge exists. It may not fit what you want to do, but that . . . Read full entry »

Re: XML's greatest cultural advantage over JSON

Posted 4/28/2013 8:09:50 AM

Re: XML's greatest cultural advantage over JSON

Posted 4/28/2013 6:32:49 AM

On 4/27/13 11:29 PM, w3c@drrw.info wrote: > Simon, > > I just blogged on this here: > > https://blogs.oracle.com/xmlorb/entry/analysis_of_json_use_cases I understand the thrill of fighting the tide, but I think you'll maybe win over o . . . Read full entry »

Re: XML's greatest cultural advantage over JSON

Posted 4/28/2013 6:32:49 AM

RE: ANN: The Simple, Powerful Schema Language (SPSL)

Posted 4/27/2013 9:01:49 PM

Roger,Folks wanting to exploit this technique can of course use the CAM editor tool and CAMV engine that employ it extensively.And the latest 2.4 release has a very cool built in XPath Wizard to help quickly write the rules - relative paths - content references and select from the set of XPath 2.0 . . . Read full entry »

RE: ANN: The Simple, Powerful Schema Language (SPSL)

Posted 4/27/2013 9:01:49 PM

RE: if only XLink had succeeded,

Posted 4/27/2013 8:54:31 PM

Simon,Naturally - this is another cool thing you can do with CAM templates - we are using annotations extensively for different semantic needs - and "Yes" - for several years people have been telling me - "surely CAM is a better way of doing XBRL - no XLink needed" - to which the answer is "Correct . . . Read full entry »

RE: if only XLink had succeeded,

Posted 4/27/2013 8:54:31 PM

RE: XML's greatest cultural advantage over JSON

Posted 4/27/2013 8:29:51 PM

Simon,I just blogged on this here: https://blogs.oracle.com/xmlorb/entry/analysis_of_json_use_cases David -------- Original Message -------- Subject: XML's greatest cultural advantage over JSON From: "Simon St.Laurent" <simonstl@simon . . . Read full entry »

RE: XML's greatest cultural advantage over JSON

Posted 4/27/2013 8:29:51 PM

RE: Somebody please give me Canonical XML Processor

Posted 4/27/2013 8:10:45 PM

Ali,Not entirely sure what you are trying to do. However - the open source CAM editor has canonical XML component dictionaries - will generate those in batch processing with XSLT - and can use the resulting dictionaries with drag and drop designer interface.http://www.niemtrainingvideos.org&n . . . Read full entry »

RE: Somebody please give me Canonical XML Processor

Posted 4/27/2013 8:10:45 PM

Re: Stop standardizing HTML

Posted 4/25/2013 1:22:46 PM

On 24 April 2013 19:52, . <oscar.vives@gmail.com> wrote: > Echos of the article on the web. > > http://developers.slashdot.org/story/13/04/24/155205/stop-standardizing-html > > I don't understand why the blog article a . . . Read full entry »

Re: Stop standardizing HTML

Posted 4/25/2013 1:22:46 PM

Re: Stop standardizing HTML

Posted 4/25/2013 10:55:50 AM

Hi Oscar, On Wed, 24 Apr 2013 10:52:33 -0700 " ." <oscar.vives@gmail.com> wrote: > Echos of the article on the web. > > http://developers.slashdot.org/story/13/04/24/155205/stop-standardizing-html > I . . . Read full entry »

Re: Stop standardizing HTML

Posted 4/25/2013 10:55:50 AM

Re: Stop standardizing HTML

Posted 4/24/2013 3:16:00 PM

There are problems that are interesting to solve to webmasters, like how to better design a blog.Â and others that are not for most of them, like how to emulate CSS3 multicolum in browsers that don't support it. In some theorical world, the html is designed in a way, that everybody can recre . . . Read full entry »

Re: Stop standardizing HTML

Posted 4/24/2013 3:16:00 PM

Re: Stop standardizing HTML

Posted 4/24/2013 2:43:04 PM

Interested if someone would run a survey on who agrees with your thesis, Simon. My guess would be a high percentage.---- Stephen D Green On 24 April 2013 13:25, Simon St.Laurent <simonstl@simonstl.com> wrote: This is more broadl . . . Read full entry »

Re: Stop standardizing HTML

Posted 4/24/2013 2:43:04 PM

Re: Stop standardizing HTML

Posted 4/24/2013 10:52:33 AM

Echos of the article on the web.http://developers.slashdot.org/story/13/04/24/155205/stop-standardizing-html On 24 April 2013 06:43, Stephen D Green <stephengreenubl@gmail.com> wrote: Interested if someone would run a survey on who agrees wit . . . Read full entry »

Re: Stop standardizing HTML

Posted 4/24/2013 10:52:33 AM

Stop standardizing HTML

Posted 4/24/2013 8:25:08 AM

This is more broadly about markup for the Web than about XML itself, but it also makes a case against standardizing at the markup vocabulary level. <http://programming.oreilly.com/2013/04/stop-standardizing-html.html> It's more limited, focusing on the cases where other standards provide . . . Read full entry »

Stop standardizing HTML

Posted 4/24/2013 8:25:08 AM

Somebody please give me Canonical XML Processor

Posted 4/23/2013 8:17:55 PM

I'm looking for a commandline tool to batch convert XMLs to canonical form.first option was xmlint, but it didn't work with my input.Apart from that, every link on the web seems to suggest this free tool called "ElCel Technology Canonical XML Processor" which is also free. However . . . Read full entry »

Somebody please give me Canonical XML Processor

Posted 4/23/2013 8:17:55 PM

Re: Features of XML Languages that Increase Complexity?

Posted 4/18/2013 3:37:16 PM

I am sure Roger will be happy to know that if someone implements XML as a conforming SGML system, implementing the SGML Declaration at http://www.w3.org/TR/NOTE-sgml-xml-971215 then they are limited to 99,999,999 characters, which is the maximum that SGML allowed (or something like that: TOTALC . . . Read full entry »

Re: Features of XML Languages that Increase Complexity?

Posted 4/18/2013 3:37:16 PM

Re: Features of XML Languages that Increase Complexity?

Posted 4/18/2013 12:09:35 PM

On Thu, Apr 18, 2013 at 1:37 AM, Rick Jelliffe <rjelliffe@allette.com.au> wrote: Â This is a relic of 1980s capacities, but it is amazing that 30 years later there are still issues in the same kind of area! As long as the number of e . . . Read full entry »

XML London 2013 (early bird registration) 1 day left

Posted 4/18/2013 8:31:02 AM

Calling all XML aficionados! Early Bird Registration for XML London 2013 is open for 1 more day and closes on April 19th. XML London 2013 is a 2 day conference which will be held on the weekend of June 15th-16th A pass includes: * Access to all conference sessions June 15th and 16th * Tea / Co . . . Read full entry »

RE: not just XML - "Getting agreements is hard"

Posted 4/17/2013 9:38:04 AM

" An unofficial W3C response that echoes many of last week's conversations here is at:" A not too far off summary of what the ISO people said in 1992, 3, 4, etc. A wheel may keep turning but when it is jacked up, it isn't going anywhere. len -----Original Message----- From: Simon St . . . Read full entry »

not just XML - "Getting agreements is hard"

Posted 4/17/2013 9:13:29 AM

Proposals for markup freedom (or is it anarchy) seem to be breaking out in multiple contexts. <http://unitscale.com/mb/bomb-in-the-garden/> An unofficial W3C response that echoes many of last week's conversations here is at: <http://www.w3.org/QA/2013/04/getting_agreements_is_hard_so . . . Read full entry »

RE: Features of XML Languages that Increase Complexity?

Posted 4/15/2013 2:44:50 PM

> IMHO simply using a simpler format doesn't make the data "safer". The powerful thing about the Dartmouth work is that with their approach security has nothing to do with the particular data format being used (XML, JSON, CSV, etc.). Rather, it has to do with the complexity of the l . . . Read full entry »

RE: Features of XML Languages that Increase Complexity?

Posted 4/15/2013 2:44:50 PM

Re: Features of XML Languages that Increase Complexity?

Posted 4/15/2013 2:25:13 PM

On 15 April 2013 14:07, Simon St.Laurent <simonstl@simonstl.com> wrote: ... All of the features Roger describes are commonly available in XML tool chains. They can be locked out with minimalist processing approaches or to some extent w . . . Read full entry »

Re: Features of XML Languages that Increase Complexity?

Posted 4/15/2013 2:25:13 PM

RE: Features of XML Languages that Increase Complexity?

Posted 4/15/2013 2:00:33 PM

>> In CSV, you do have to watch for an endless file. There isn't much else to watch for, however. << CSV was my most trivial example ... but even sticking with it I disagree. There are MANY things that can go wrong in a CSV processor ... some can be "dangerous" and some c . . . Read full entry »

Balisage Conference Student Support Awards

Posted 4/15/2013 12:57:15 PM

REMINDER: The deadline to apply for Balisage 2013 Student Support Awards is Friday, April 19th. If you are a student interested in markup, marked-up documents, or XML you probably want to attend Balisage. If you are a student who is a bit short of financial resources you would probably welcome ass . . . Read full entry »

Re: Features of XML Languages that Increase Complexity?

Posted 4/15/2013 11:45:55 AM

Roger-- I think you need to caveat some of your statements, such as: > Clearly if a feature elevates the language's complexity to "recursively enumerable" then you will want to avoid that feature. and > I reckon there's not much point in creating an awesome XML language if it . . . Read full entry »

Re: Features of XML Languages that Increase Complexity?

Posted 4/15/2013 11:14:31 AM

On 4/15/13 10:44 AM, Costello, Roger L. wrote: > If you create a language (using XML or JSON or CSV or ...) that is > recursively enumerable, then determining the vulnerabilities of that > language is tantamount to trying to solve the halting problem. No > amount of programming effort . . . Read full entry »

Re: Features of XML Languages that Increase Complexity?

Posted 4/15/2013 10:17:26 AM

On 4/15/13 10:00 AM, David Lee wrote: > CSV was my most trivial example ... but even sticking with it I > disagree. There are MANY things that can go wrong in a CSV processor > ... some can be "dangerous" and some can produce bad data, (which may > be more "dangerous&quo . . . Read full entry »

Re: Features of XML Languages that Increase Complexity?

Posted 4/15/2013 9:07:34 AM

On 4/14/13 2:28 PM, David Lee wrote: > Yes I read those. And those are normal things one might put in a data > structure reguardless of the markup format. Yes, but they are completely normal features of XML document processing. CSV, to use your example, offers none of these things except op . . . Read full entry »

RE: Features of XML Languages that Increase Complexity?

Posted 4/14/2013 6:28:09 PM

>>>> Roger listed some aspects at the beginning of the thread (today, 7:55am). If those are the criteria, I don't think XML is ever likely to be a good choice - except perhaps for a deliberately chosen subset. <<<< Yes I read those. And those are normal things one might . . . Read full entry »

RE: Features of XML Languages that Increase Complexity?

Posted 4/14/2013 5:56:50 PM

Seriously curious. What aspect of XML makes it unsuitable for a hardened data transfer format ? (Assuming the channel itself is hardened). I know that the US Military is using XML to transfer strategic information in a very hardened fashion. What aspect of XML makes that something that you would . . . Read full entry »

RE: Features of XML Languages that Increase Complexity?

Posted 4/14/2013 4:08:35 PM

Hey Simon, Roger, are you working for the permanently paranoid? Is the only communication to be allow safe communications? Well, yes, of course. Safe communications _and_ safe applications. Treat all systems as compromised ... There is no such thing as 'secure' any more. [1] . . . Read full entry »

Re: Features of XML Languages that Increase Complexity?

Posted 4/14/2013 2:27:26 PM

Are these properties of the XML language (vocabulary) that you are using, or properties of the information that you are modelling? I would have thought if you are modelling the structure of an aeroplane, or the structure of a natural language text, or the history of first class county cricket, t . . . Read full entry »

Re: Features of XML Languages that Increase Complexity?

Posted 4/14/2013 2:12:18 PM

On 4/14/13 1:56 PM, David Lee wrote: > Seriously curious. What aspect of XML makes it unsuitable for a > hardened data transfer format ? (Assuming the channel itself is > hardened). I don't _think_ Roger is willing to assume that, or at least not willing to assume that his hardened chann . . . Read full entry »

Re: Features of XML Languages that Increase Complexity?

Posted 4/14/2013 1:39:37 PM

On 4/14/13 12:08 PM, Costello, Roger L. wrote: > I reckon there's not much point in creating an awesome XML language > if its complexity exposes input-processing applications to widespread > vulnerabilities. It all depends on the context of that processing. The vulnerabilities you see . . . Read full entry »

Re: Features of XML Languages that Increase Complexity?

Posted 4/14/2013 12:37:18 PM

On 4/14/13 12:14 PM, Dimitre Novatchev wrote: > On Sun, Apr 14, 2013 at 7:47 AM, Simon St.Laurent <simonstl@simonstl.com> wrote: >> On 4/14/13 7:55 AM, Costello, Roger L. wrote: >>> >>> Clearly if a feature elevates the langua . . . Read full entry »

Features of XML Languages that Increase Complexity?

Posted 4/14/2013 11:55:40 AM

Hi Folks, Does your XML language [1] contain polymorphic elements? Recursive content? Open content? Co-constraints? Internal references? How do those features impact the complexity [2] of your language? Clearly if a feature elevates the language's complexity to "recursively enumerable&quo . . . Read full entry »

Re: Features of XML Languages that Increase Complexity?

Posted 4/14/2013 10:47:16 AM

On 4/14/13 7:55 AM, Costello, Roger L. wrote: > Clearly if a feature elevates the language's complexity to "recursively > enumerable" then you will want to avoid that feature. > > Recall that as a language increases in complexity its attack surface > increases. For a recur . . . Read full entry »

Re: Features of XML Languages that Increase Complexity?

Posted 4/14/2013 9:14:21 AM

On Sun, Apr 14, 2013 at 7:47 AM, Simon St.Laurent <simonstl@simonstl.com> wrote: > On 4/14/13 7:55 AM, Costello, Roger L. wrote: >> >> Clearly if a feature elevates the language's complexity to "recursively >> enumerable" then you will w . . . Read full entry »

Re: Invoices (was Re: XML's greatest culturaladvanta

Posted 4/13/2013 2:09:53 PM

On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 3:12 PM, Sean McGrath <sean.mcgrath@propylon.com> wrote: > [John Cowan] > >>What I must understand to do what I want with a document has nothing to do >> with what you must >>understand to do what you w . . . Read full entry »

Re: XML still just a W3C Recommendation?

Posted 4/12/2013 2:08:14 PM

On Fri, 2013-04-12 at 11:34 -0400, John Cowan wrote: > [...] > On the reception side, a few organizations can only make use of a standard > if it's a recognized International Standard, or at least a standard from an > international standards body, Along with our PAS status comes the a . . . Read full entry »

Re: XML still just a W3C Recommendation?

Posted 4/12/2013 2:08:14 PM

Re: Testing XML don't use xUnit

Posted 4/12/2013 1:48:30 PM

On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 4:04 AM, George Cristian Bina <george@oxygenxml.com> wrote: > Hi Ihe, > > People asked for a Schematron example that you think cannot be written as an > XPath only test then they wanted to show you the equiv . . . Read full entry »

Re: XML still just a W3C Recommendation?

Posted 4/12/2013 11:34:29 AM

On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 4:57 AM, Stephen D Green <stephengreenubl@gmail.com> wrote: I don't want to be too controversial but if the current (albeit anecdotal) course of events is that XML is waning in Web useAs a Web interchang . . . Read full entry »

Re: Testing XML don't use xUnit

Posted 4/12/2013 10:59:25 AM

On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 5:26 AM, Ihe Onwuka <ihe.onwuka@gmail.com> wrote: I was going to say this is a rather unflattering analogy but the man has a masters degree. Not only that, but he is an articulate and intelligent public speaker, by all . . . Read full entry »

Re: Testing XML don't use xUnit

Posted 4/12/2013 10:46:31 AM

On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 10:16 AM, Ihe Onwuka <ihe.onwuka@gmail.com> wrote: > On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 8:48 AM, Stephen D Green > <stephengreenubl@gmail.com> wrote: & . . . Read full entry »

Re: Testing XML don't use xUnit

Posted 4/12/2013 10:26:23 AM

On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 4:39 AM, Rick Jelliffe <rjelliffe@allette.com.au> wrote: > I think Michael and others are getting a little sidetracked with the > science: like George the Animal Steele being distracted by . . . Read full entry »

Re: XML still just a W3C Recommendation?

Posted 4/12/2013 9:57:27 AM

Thanks Liam, John, Great that W3C does have PAS status with ISO. I don't want to be too controversial but if the current (albeitanecdotal) course of events is that XML is waning in Web use but still incredibly strong in documents (such as OOXML),it seems a natural progression and to the benef . . . Read full entry »

Re: Testing XML don't use xUnit

Posted 4/12/2013 9:43:46 AM

On 12 April 2013 09:16, Ihe Onwuka <ihe.onwuka@gmail.com> wrote: Ultimately we would like to translate CSS into markup. Does this mean that Selenium API could play a role in helping us achieve that goal. Say something like traversing the tr . . . Read full entry »

Re: Testing XML don't use xUnit

Posted 4/12/2013 9:21:54 AM

On 04/12/2013 01:46 AM, Ihe Onwuka wrote: > CSS Selectors are strongly recommended over Xpaths. > > I would tend to agree with that statement (in the context of writing selectors for Selenium tests), except that we find that in practice the implementation of CSS in Selenium is buggy . . . Read full entry »

Re: Testing XML don't use xUnit

Posted 4/12/2013 9:16:33 AM

On Fri, Apr 12, 2013 at 8:48 AM, Stephen D Green <stephengreenubl@gmail.com> wrote: > There is significant difference how Selenium API is used > compared to Selenium IDE (for Firefox), as far as XPath > locato . . . Read full entry »

Re: Invoices (was Re: XML's greatest culturaladvanta

Posted 4/12/2013 9:12:26 AM

[John Cowan] >What I must understand to do what I want with a document has nothing to do with what you must >understand to do what you want. And perhaps neither of us have purposes that were foreseen by the publisher. Amen. To paraphrase the Bar . . . Read full entry »

Re: Testing XML don't use xUnit

Posted 4/12/2013 8:48:04 AM

There is significant difference how Selenium API is used compared to Selenium IDE (for Firefox), as far as XPathlocators of HTML attributes and elements is concerned.Selenium API requires writing of code to run it which adds time to development of the tests so developer is more likelyto be looking . . . Read full entry »

Re: Testing XML don't use xUnit

Posted 4/12/2013 6:46:46 AM

On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 1:45 PM, Michael Sokolov <msokolov@safaribooksonline.com> wrote: > On 04/11/2013 06:37 AM, Stephen D Green wrote: >> >> >> I also do a lot of work with testers writing tests for HTML p . . . Read full entry »

Re: Testing XML don't use xUnit

Posted 4/12/2013 6:05:51 AM

On Thu, Apr 11, 2013 at 1:45 PM, Michael Sokolov <msokolov@safaribooksonline.com> wrote: > On 04/11/2013 06:37 AM, Stephen D Green wrote: > > The problem with Selenium tests is not the tool: it's the markup . . . Read full entry »

Re: Testing XML don't use xUnit

Posted 4/12/2013 1:10:17 AM

> > It's not really anything to do with agile or TDD, it's a no-no because > the developers writing the code and junit tests have no need for a > natural language abstraction layer getting in the way - the people who > wrote the code know how to write the test. > The natu . . . Read full entry »

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