The XML-DEV email discussion forum was started nearly 10 years ago by Dr. Peter Murray-Rust and
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Posted
7/1/2009 8:11:07 PM
Hi,
This looks interesting:
http://www.xmlvm.org/overview/
"Overview
The goal of XMLVM is to offer a flexible and extensible cross-compiler
toolchain. Instead of cross-compiling on a source code level, XMLVM
cross-compiles byte code instructions from Sun Microsystem's virtual
machin
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
7/1/2009 6:47:07 PM
The complete Balisage: The Markup Conference 2009 program, including
late-breaking news, has just been posted.
* Detailed program: http://www.balisage.net/2009/Program.html
* Schedule at a Glance: http://www.balisage.net/2009/At-A-Glance.html
Balisage 2009 is the place to come to think a
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/30/2009 10:44:25 PM
I am a recent graduate of the Masters' Program in Information
Management and Systems at the University of California, Berkeley. One
of my emphases at Berkeley was in XML, but, with everything else I had
to do, I didn't have time to look into XSLT as deeply as I wanted.
Then, just last mon
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/30/2009 7:42:21 AM
ycao5@scs.carleton.ca wrote:
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> I have one question about the real-life applications of XML-based
> publish/subscribe system in which the published messages are in XML
> format. Can I find existing such
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/29/2009 7:53:19 PM
Hello everyone,
I have one question about the real-life applications of XML-based
publish/subscribe system in which the published messages are in XML
format. Can I find existing such applications? I want to do some
statistical work for such application. Please give me some advices.
T
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/27/2009 11:21:39 AM
Interesting idea.
This would be nice:
1. Xml Schema to have a built in simple expression language.
<foo expr=="1/3 + 2/3"
xs:attribute name="expr" type="xs:rationalExpr
or
xs:attribute name="expr" type="xs:float"
2. schema to have a plugin or typ
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/26/2009 6:36:27 PM
Michael Kay wrote:
> > I wouldn't say that XPath can't perform rational arithmetic but
> rather that rational arithmetic is not yet implemented for XPath.
>
> XPath does not have an atomic data type that is capable of
> representing the value 1/3 accurately. You could of co
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/26/2009 6:23:09 PM
Pete,
> Can you confirm support for decimal numbers in JavaScript - it was
> proposed for JS 3 before Harmony, but I thought it had been dropped?
>
Thank you for pointing at this. No, I didn't mean effective support of
decimal numbers in Javascript but I just assumed that decimal numb
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/26/2009 5:18:07 PM
Can you confirm the status of support for decimal numbers in
JavaScript - it was proposed for ECMAScript 4 before Harmony, but I
thought it had been dropped?
2009/6/26 COUTHURES Alain <alain.couthures@agencexml.com>:
> For version 1, use of
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/26/2009 3:22:50 PM
David,
> usually things import mathml, do whatever manipulations they want, then
> export again, rather than directly working on mathml itself.
> So mathematica and maple for example could inport a mathml
> representation of a formula and do all kinds of simplifications, but
> prob
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/26/2009 3:09:23 PM
Nico,
> If you put formulas like that in the data fields of XML, then you are
> coming back to raw text data that you will have to parse, losing the
> power of XML ? Why not use MathML and tools associated ?
From my point of view, MathML is more in a rendering approach. I'm
interested
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/26/2009 2:39:11 PM
> For version 2, rational numbers could be added. I have found Jasymca
(http://webuser.hs-furtwangen.de/%7Edersch/jasymca2/index.html> ), written
in Java for PDAs and it seems pretty fast and light :> rat(3/5)+rat(1/3) gives 14/15 as answer !
>> I wouldn't say tha
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/26/2009 2:13:54 PM
> BTW, do you know any MathML tool able to reduce expressions ?
usually things import mathml, do whatever manipulations they want, then
export again, rather than directly working on mathml itself.
So mathematica and maple for example could inport a mathml
representation of a formula and do a
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/26/2009 1:55:32 PM
RuleML 2009
3rd International Symposium on Rules, Applications and Interoperability
November 5-7 2009, Las Vegas, Nevada, USA
http://2009.ruleml.org/
co-located with the 12th Business Rules
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/26/2009 9:48:01 AM
Michael,
5CB9F5B20B44430ABA3C3433159847A5@Sealion"
type="cite">
In fact, I'm more concerned with validation than evaluation.
...
Wouldn't it be great if "1/3 + 2/3" was exactly like "1" ? As
Then you seem to be very concerned with evaluation. There are l
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/26/2009 9:37:04 AM
########################################
# Axl Library #
# Calm like a bomb #
# 0.5.7 #
########################################
Advanced Software Production Line is prou
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/26/2009 9:28:27 AM
> I wouldn't say that XPath
can't perform rational arithmetic but rather that rational arithmetic is not yet
implemented for XPath.
XPath does not have an atomic data type that is
capable of representing the value 1/3 accurately. You could of course do it all
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/25/2009 10:53:54 PM
Kurt,
Thank you very much for your answer.
In fact, I'm more concerned with validation than evaluation. My point of
view is that 25+17 should be considered as a valid integer because it's
just an unusual notation for 42 !
So, I enter "25+17" in an XForms input field of "xsd:int
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/25/2009 10:52:41 PM
> In fact, I'm more concerned with validation than evaluation.
...
>
> Wouldn't it be great if "1/3 + 2/3" was exactly like "1" ? As
Then you seem to be very concerned with evaluation. There are languages that
perform rational arithmetic which would make this expre
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/25/2009 10:49:10 PM
The expression in the value attribute is
essentially an anonymous function -<account-total value="fn(){29 + 12
* 1.25}"/>In the current implementation of XPath, there is no
mechanism to enable the evaluation of anonymous functions, because that's a
second order operation. There i
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/25/2009 7:35:21 PM
Formulas in XML values are a persistent concern for me for some days and
xml-dev appears to be the best place to discuss this...
From mathematical point of view, 35+7 and 42 are equals but human
beings can interpret them differently. When a value has to be put in a
field by an user, sometimes
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/25/2009 1:53:05 PM
A simple XSLT implementation is to use the LR-parsing framework of
FXSL (func-LRparse.xsl) and produce a function, which acts as a simple
arithmetic interpreter.
In fact, this has already been done and used as the first and simplest
application of this framework:
http://fxsl.cvs.sourceforge.
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/25/2009 12:59:47 PM
Alain,This is an interesting point, and a subtle one (and that it comes up in XBRL surprises me not in the least). If I understand it correctly, what you're asking is, if you have an XML expression of the form:
<account-total value="29 + 12 * 1.25"/>how you can effectively evalu
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/24/2009 9:05:23 PM
With respect to the state of the art in XML database engines, there are
several that go beyond XML storage and XQuery processing.
Among the native XML database engines, eXist is notable for an XQuery
extension for SQL processing. But several platforms are distinct for
operating with multiple t
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/22/2009 5:00:37 PM
>
> Consider this element declaration:
>
> <xs:element name="Publisher" type="xs:string"/>
>
> What is Publisher's value space?
Technically, an element does not have a value space. Only a type has a value
space. The value space here is clearly t
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/22/2009 1:41:28 PM
As a build out of my previous EMail...
Does Publisher have a value space and if so what is it? Perhaps it's
simplest values space is xs:string. However, the intention of the word
"Publisher" suggests more - organizations that publish. As well, "Publisher"
may not be full nam
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/22/2009 12:09:06 PM
Roger--
Your claim seems to be along the lines of "the sky is falling". Just
because the legal values can't be determined "in isolation" doesn't
make instance-document-generator tools "impossible", or even
"extraordinarily difficult". It just means
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/22/2009 11:47:43 AM
Hi Folks,
Consider this element declaration:
<xs:element name="Publisher" type="xs:string"/>
What is Publisher's value space? That is, what values can the <Publisher> element have in an XML instance document:
<Publisher>_________</Publisher>
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/22/2009 10:44:02 AM
This is an old problem in database systems - see discussion of intention and
extension by CJ Date in Intro Database Systems.
The value space of Publisher may in fact be constrained by the extension
(all the values) in a Publisher table.
-----Original Message-----
From: Frank Manola [mailto:f
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/20/2009 2:02:09 PM
> <xsl:value-of select="true+1"/>
that selects the element true, coerces its string value to a number
(which is NaN in this case) then adds 1 (resulting in NaN)
> <test><xsl:value-of select="true-1"/></test>
That selects the sequence of ele
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/20/2009 10:16:31 AM
A "-" in XPath is interpreted as a hyphen if it appears as part of a name;
if you want it interpreted as a minus sign then you need to insert a space.
Just as
select="price - discount"
is different from
select="price-discount"
so
select="processin
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/20/2009 2:42:30 AM
Thanks MIke.
Â
I am playing around with saxon and had a question on saxon 9.
Â
The following is my XSLT.
 ....
 <test><xsl:value-of select="true+1"/></test>
 ...
Â
The result is
 <test xmlns:t="http://www.oracle.com">nan</test>
Â
Â
I ch
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/20/2009 1:46:42 AM
I guess the following section answers this.
"A subtraction operator must be preceded by whitespace if it could
otherwise be interpreted as part of the previous token. For example,
a-b will be interpreted as a name, but a - b and a -b will be
interpreted as arithmetic expressions. (See A.2.4
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/20/2009 12:44:32 AM
Spec lists the following as reserved fn names.
attribute,comment,document-node,element,empty-sequence,if,item,node,processing-instruction,schema-attribute,schema-element,text,typeswitch
Does this mean that user can register other "unprefixed" xpath
functions [custom ones].
If No, okay
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/19/2009 2:24:19 PM
Christian Nentwich wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> I was browsing through the archives of xml-dev on optimised XPath
> evaluation, something I've looked at on and off since about 2000. By
> coincidence, I stumbled across this patent application for "optimised
> streaming evaluatio
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/19/2009 11:40:56 AM
Hi, thank you all for the helps!I tried Michael's suggested method. Since for my project the requirement for the generated schema is to make sure all instance is valid against it, so this method worked well for me.
By checking the results, I found that actually I got more simple type declarat
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/19/2009 10:40:49 AM
http://events.oasis-open.org/home/forum/2009
OASIS is pleased to announce that NIST will be hosting this
year’s event at their http://www.nist.gov/public_affairs/maps/nistmaps.html!
Proposal Deadline: 10
July 2009
ABOUT THE CONFERENCE
Barack Obama has direc
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/18/2009 11:52:27 PM
> This patent troubles me. It is sits squarely on a key
> requirement for high performance XML processing. I think it
> will trouble some of you, too. If anybody understands how
> prior art can be submitted for this (these pages are unclear
> about whether the patent is granted)
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/18/2009 9:31:45 PM
Dear all,
I was browsing through the archives of xml-dev on optimised XPath
evaluation, something I've looked at on and off since about 2000. By
coincidence, I stumbled across this patent application for "optimised
streaming evaluation of xml queries":
http://www.peertopatent.org/pa
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/18/2009 6:24:42 PM
Mike:
The practice of patent evaluation is to use prior arts to narrow patent
claims. It's not a zero-sum. It's whittling. Every piece related to any
claim counts.
Gather ye rosebuds.
len
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Kay [mailto:mike@saxonica.
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/18/2009 5:10:18 PM
On Jun 18, 2009, at 4:31 PM, Christian Nentwich wrote:
> Pretty cheeky. The first time we did something like that was around
> 2001, when a student implemented it for me.
I know of prior art on that going back to probably 1995... not exactly
XPath, but certainly streaming transformati
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/18/2009 5:04:36 PM
Michael Kay wrote
> I don't think the split between
> structural rules and business rules equates at all closely to the split
> between grammar and predicates.
I agree.
But I would say that the demarcation between what constraints to put in
XSD (whether in the grammar or in assertions)
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/18/2009 4:45:59 PM
Yup, we implemented one in 2001 also - seems to be the year. We are still
shipping one in our XQuery based Db. The idea has been published in a
number of papers.
-----Original Message-----
From: Len Bullard [mailto:cbullard@hiwaay.net]
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/18/2009 11:29:49 AM
True :-). I blame a late night last night. So ignore my last post.
XML generated an xs:choice for that example.
Paul
> -----Original Message-----
> From: George Cristian Bina [mailto:george@oxygenxml.com]
> Sent: Thursday, June 18,
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/18/2009 10:30:32 AM
XML to schema tools tend to allow the user to set various options. For example, XML Spy asks if you want to create enumerations or not. If you had a single instance, you might just get
<xs:simpleType name="Color">
<xs:restriction base="xs:string">
<xs:enum
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/18/2009 10:21:33 AM
I further see following issues with the usefulness of XML to XSD
conversion tools.
1) Suppose a following element exists in the XML document.
<color>RED</color>
How would the "XML to Schema" conversion tool guess, that the element
"color" represents a "visua
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/18/2009 9:55:17 AM
Paul Spencer wrote:
> [...] The complexity of the tool goes up markedly with more than one instance. For example, how would you handle this:
>
> Instance 1
> <a>
> <b/>
> <c/>
> </a>
>
> Instance 2
> <a>
> <b/>
> <
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/18/2009 9:33:48 AM
> I further see following issues with the usefulness of XML to
> XSD conversion tools.
>
> 1) Suppose a following element exists in the XML document.
>
> <color>RED</color>
>
> How would the "XML to Schema" conversion tool guess, that the
> ele
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/18/2009 9:12:33 AM
Regarding where to put the checking:
1. User Experience is always better if you let the user know immediately
when they have broken a rule. So this requires a check to the rules engine
and then a properly crafted User Experience response - like a good message
and perhaps a pointer to some help.
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/17/2009 11:24:28 PM
>
> So "structural rules" are those that specify constraints on
> the structure of XML instances? That is, they specify what
> elements and attributes can go where.
It's your term, not mine. You can define it how you like. I've been trying
to say that I don't think your c
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/17/2009 9:44:45 PM
> From: Rita Shen [mailto:shaledova@gmail.com]
> Hi,
>
> How can I generate a common XML schema for multiple xml instances??
> I know many tools can generate an XSD from a single XML instance.
> But in my case, I want to get the unkno
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/17/2009 3:36:57 PM
>
> What is a "structural rule?"
>
> In XML Schema 1.0 the answer was clear: anything that
> required computation, if-then-else logic, inference, and
> co-constraints could not be placed in XML Schema, and was
> therefore placed in Schematron) All rules were exp
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/17/2009 3:32:45 PM
Hi Rita,
Trang takes as input a set of XML files and generates as output Relax
NG, XML Schema or DTD
http://code.google.com/p/jing-trang/
oXygen provides a GUI wrapper around Trang
http://www.oxygenxml.com/doc/ug-oxygen/converting-between-schema-languages.html
Best Regards,
George
--
George C
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/17/2009 3:28:30 PM
Roger--
This distinction about "structure" still doesn't seem all that clear-
cut. What about your security rule?:
> Security Classification Rule: No paragraph
> may have a classification higher than the
> overall document's classification.
This seems like a constrain
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/17/2009 3:24:28 PM
Hi, How can I generate a common XML schema for multiple xml instances?? I know many tools can generate an XSD from a single XML instance. But in my case, I want to get the unknown common XSD for a bunch of XML instances.
Thanks for any help,syt
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/17/2009 2:12:54 PM
>> First an example of a business rule:
>>
>> A Level 1 manager has a maximum signature
>> authority of $10K.
>>
>>
>> An auto loan applicant, living in Ohio, is
>> underage if he/she is under 18 years of age.
>>
>> If
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/17/2009 1:42:41 PM
Hi Folks,
Here's a recap of what I've learned from this very illuminating discussion:
XML Schema 1.0 gives you a way to impose rules on the *structure* of XML instance documents; that is, what elements and attributes XML instances can contain and where.
But there are some rules about the stru
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/17/2009 1:42:05 PM
> I shall try.
>
> First an example of a business rule:
>
> A Level 1 manager has a maximum signature
> authority of $10K.
>
>
> An auto loan applicant, living in Ohio, is
> underage if he/she is under 18 years of age.
>
> If a customer
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/17/2009 11:33:13 AM
Hi,
If you are looking to build such a utility yourself, you need to
consider few points, like mentioned below:
Let's say your instance document is following (i.e., having two
"person" elements):
<people>
<person>..</person>
<person>..</person>
<
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/17/2009 11:29:14 AM
> a paragraph cannot appear nested
> within another paragraph unless
> there is an intervening table, which is in
> my book a structural rule
Awesome example!
So "structural rules" are those that specify constraints on the structure of XML instances? That is, they speci
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/17/2009 9:28:54 AM
Hi Michael,
> > First an example of a business rule:
> >
> > A Level 1 manager has a maximum signature
> > authority of $10K.
> >
> > An auto loan applicant, living in Ohio, is
> > underage if he/she is under 18 years of age.
> >
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/17/2009 9:12:28 AM
On 17/6/09 09:05, nico wrote:
> Hello
>
> I do not think such a tool exists.
> On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 10:54 AM, Rita Shen<shaledova@gmail.com
> <mailto:shaledova@gmail.c
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/17/2009 9:05:33 AM
HelloI do not think such a tool exists. If you want to build it yourself, you may generate the XSD from the first XML and then use a validator which uses the "derivative algorithm". Such an algorithm is described there : http://www.thaiopensource.com/relaxng/derivative.html
What you have
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/17/2009 8:49:44 AM
I've done this with good results in the past by simply
concatenating the documents (by generating a wrapper document that pulled in the
indivudual documents as external entities). Of course there's a bit of
post-processing needed, e.g. to get rid of the wrapper element, but that's
always tru
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/17/2009 7:55:13 AM
Hi Frank,
> How about some more detail on how you're
> defining "business rule"?
I shall try.
First an example of a business rule:
A Level 1 manager has a maximum signature
authority of $10K.
Now a definition:
Business rules are the foundational logic
tha
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/16/2009 10:58:06 AM
Roger--
On Jun 15, 2009, at 5:10 PM, Costello, Roger L. wrote:
>
> Hi Folks,
>
> In the book Business Rules Applied, Barbara von Halle presents the
> Business Rules Methodology, which fundamentally is about separating
> rules from data: [1]
>
How about some more detail
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/15/2009 11:41:31 PM
>
> In the book Business Rules Applied, Barbara von Halle
> presents the Business Rules Methodology, which fundamentally
> is about separating rules from data:
If you're trying to deduce from that that it's desirable for the following
two constraints to be written in different plac
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/15/2009 10:52:37 PM
Roger,
In this example, the 'classification' attribute applied to an element
is describing the content of that element rather than being data
itself.
The 'classification' attribute value is therefore metadata, and thus a
prime candidate for use in a business rule.
XML Schema 1.1 <assert>
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/15/2009 5:10:52 PM
Hi Folks,
In the book Business Rules Applied, Barbara von Halle presents the Business Rules Methodology, which fundamentally is about separating rules from data: [1]
A business rules methodology specifically
removes rule considerations from the data
and process tracks.
The data
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/15/2009 4:32:51 PM
Paul Spencer schrieb:
> Most non-programmers "get" XSLT and love it straight away. [...] Some
> of those used to procedural languages also get it, but others take
> time. There is usually an epiphany at some point [...]
The discovery of the identity template, plus variations. T
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/15/2009 2:41:54 PM
I think Michael is spot on (as usual). I have a couple of XSLT
modules in my training courses. Most non-programmers “get” XSLT and love it
straight away. They are blown away by what you can do in just a few lines of
code. Some of those used to procedural languages also get it, b
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/15/2009 11:28:38 AM
Proposals for Late-breaking News presentations at Balisage are due June 19th.
http://www.balisage.net/latebreaking-call.html
It is time to start writing, or to encourage someone you want to hear
from at Balisage to start writing!
--
======================================================
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/13/2009 4:41:43 PM
Even this is more complicated than what I'm trying to determine. All
these enties are about including or not and changing the prefixes or
not. I was hoping to find the 2 or 3 lines that just include the
MathML in HTML and hopefully show how it controls where it can be
used. That is not allowin
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/13/2009 11:15:20 AM
This looks interesting, but it doesn't fit something I didn't state.
I'm trying to get to a DTD that will validate my content via a web
browser. This is a continuation of my XSLT support in browser question.
My reason for creating this DTD is to get my website to pass the W3C
validation tool,
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/13/2009 10:03:01 AM
> Why do people despise XSLT so
much?
Well, as I said before, there is certainly a tendency for
people to either love it or hate it.
I think the people who get on well with XSLT are
either:
* non-programmers who use it as a simple templating
language and don
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/13/2009 6:11:13 AM
Don't worry. Hate crimes legislation focusing on hate speech against
XSL will be going through the US congress this summer that will put an
end to this. First offenders will be sent to reeducation camps lead by
G. Ken Holman and Wendel Piez. Second and serially offenders will be
forced (im
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/13/2009 12:27:02 AM
> I tried looking at how MathML is included in XHTML but trying to sort
> it out is a bit painful. Also they combined all the DTDs and entities
> together as one file/DTD with namespaces; what I want to do is
> reference in the XHTML DTD into mine
actually the mathml dtd is writt
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/12/2009 10:33:23 PM
Why do people despise XSLT so much?http://stackoverflow.com/questions/961942/what-is-the-worst-programming-language-you-ever-worked-with
Is it people that hate functional and markup at the same time, packed in one combo of hatred?--max toro q2009/6/8 Michael Kay <mike@saxon&#
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/12/2009 6:00:42 PM
> In addition to controlling where the XHTML elements can be placed I'm
> also trying to not have to prefix the html elements in my XML file.
> I'd like to be able to cut and paste between HTML pages and my XML
> document. I'm thinking this is what is causing my problems.
DTD's don
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/12/2009 4:02:50 PM
At 2009-06-12 14:56 -0400, Dan Vint wrote:
>So I know about namespace and how to define them and such, what I'm
>trying to figure out is what is the best way to actually include
>XHTML elements (for instance) into another DTD. I want to minimize
>the impact on my DTD with as few ent
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/12/2009 2:56:07 PM
So I know about namespace and how to define them and such, what I'm
trying to figure out is what is the best way to actually include
XHTML elements (for instance) into another DTD. I want to minimize
the impact on my DTD with as few entries as possible and I would like
to control where in my D
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/12/2009 2:43:18 PM
*** Apologies for cross-posting ***
=====================================================================
CALL FOR PAPERS
Coordination Models, Languages, and Applications (CM)
Special Track at the 25th Symposium on Applied Computing (SAC 2010)
Sierre, Switzerland
March 22 - 26, 2010
(http://sac
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/12/2009 8:58:27 AM
Michael Kay wrote:
>> A) Is this the Saxon-SA or saxon-B?
>>
>
> Schema processing requires Saxon-SA
>
>> B) Any code / tutorial showing how to take in a schema &
>> output the XML document?
>>
>
> just an example:
>
> java com.saxonica.Valida
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/11/2009 3:17:19 PM
Take for instance a content model as simple as a choice between two
elements:
a | b
Is a required?
Is b required?
All you know if that either a or be is required.
Take another example
a, b, a?
Is a required or optional?
There is no list of required elements, you can get however the require
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/11/2009 3:09:56 PM
If a model group (choice, sequence, all) is optional that means its
content is optional so if you want to obtain the required content you do
not need to go into that to generate anything.
Best Regards,
George
--
George Cristian Bina
<oXygen/> XML Editor, Schema Editor and XSLT Editor/Deb
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/11/2009 2:08:47 PM
> A) Is this the Saxon-SA or saxon-B?
Schema processing requires Saxon-SA
>
> B) Any code / tutorial showing how to take in a schema &
> output the XML document?
just an example:
java com.saxonica.Validate -scmout:test.scm -xsd:test.xsd
>
> If saxon-B then I will try &a
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/11/2009 1:19:58 PM
Michael Kay wrote:
>> I need to interrogate/process an element within a xsd/schema
>> & simply ask "what are my required child nodes (elements &
>> attributes)" & then "what are my optional child nodes
>> (elements & attributes)"
>>
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/11/2009 1:08:42 PM
>
> I need to interrogate/process an element within a xsd/schema
> & simply ask "what are my required child nodes (elements &
> attributes)" & then "what are my optional child nodes
> (elements & attributes)"
>
> Is there an api (prefer
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/11/2009 1:03:40 PM
If you replaced "all" with "sequence", then you would be describing the
grammar
(a, b, c, d)?
and if you added minOccurs=0 to c, the grammar would be
(a, b, c?, d)?
It's no different with "all". For example if the outer level is optional and
the c is optional, th
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/11/2009 12:52:40 PM
Dear All,
I need to interrogate/process an element within a xsd/schema & simply
ask "what are my required child nodes (elements & attributes)" & then
"what are my optional child nodes (elements & attributes)"
Is there an api (preferably java) or an XSLT sheet
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/11/2009 12:48:10 PM
Dear All,
If I have a container element such as :
<xs:all minOccurs="0">
<xs:element ref="a" />
<xs:element ref="b" />
<xs:element ref="c" />
<xs:element
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/10/2009 12:39:46 PM
June
2009, London:
World class speakers confirmed for European e-Identity Conference
Are you considering, implementing or
already managing e-Identity technologies as part of your e-security strategy? If
so, then you need to be at the European e-Identity Management Conference 2009
(
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/10/2009 10:24:17 AM
The next meeting of the XML Users Group will be held on Wednesday,
June 17, 2009 at the American Geophysical Union (AGU) at 2000
Florida Avenue, N.W., Washington, DC 20009-1277. The meeting starts
at 7:00 p.m. and usually last approximately 2 hours. If attending
the meeting by Metro, get off the
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/10/2009 10:21:42 AM
The next meeting of the XML Users Group will be held on Wednesday,
June 17, 2009 at the American Geophysical Union (AGU) at 2000
Florida Avenue, N.W., Washington, DC 20009-1277. The meeting starts
at 7:00 p.m. and usually last approximately 2 hours. If attending
the meeting by Metro, get off
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/9/2009 9:46:44 PM
> Microsoft made a perhaps well-intentioned mistake of
> implementing a beta version of the XSLT 1.0 spec and shipping
> it in IE 4.
Yes, that was a bad mistake.
> They then made then horrendous decisions to
> continue supporting the incompatible beta version for years,
No, I
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/9/2009 7:35:47 PM
Philippe Poulard wrote:
> ...
> curiously, as shown in the enclosed screenshot, this is what is telling
> me firefox ("view response headers"), but it also tell me that it was
> sent in text/xml ("view page information")
>
> it's time to move to chrome :)
&
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/9/2009 7:27:39 PM
Julian Reschke a écrit :
> Philippe Poulard wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I see in the headers that the MIME type is text/html and the encoding
>> is ISO-8859-1 whereas in XML the declaration specifies utf-8
>>
>> To avoid encoding troubles, you should send your docum
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/9/2009 7:19:49 PM
Bjoern Hoehrmann wrote:
> * Julian Reschke wrote:
>> And sure enough, when I change the XSLT's output element to use utf-8,
>> the problem goes away. The problem also occurs with us-ascii.
>>
>> Now, this really doesn't make sense. If the output encoding can not
>&g
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/9/2009 7:13:42 PM
Philippe Poulard wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I see in the headers that the MIME type is text/html and the encoding is
> ISO-8859-1 whereas in XML the declaration specifies utf-8
>
> To avoid encoding troubles, you should send your documents with a MIME
> type application/xml or other
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/9/2009 7:07:48 PM
* Julian Reschke wrote:
>And sure enough, when I change the XSLT's output element to use utf-8,
>the problem goes away. The problem also occurs with us-ascii.
>
>Now, this really doesn't make sense. If the output encoding can not
>directly encode the character, it should just be e
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/9/2009 7:05:51 PM
Hi,
I see in the headers that the MIME type is text/html and the encoding is
ISO-8859-1 whereas in XML the declaration specifies utf-8
To avoid encoding troubles, you should send your documents with a MIME
type application/xml or others like those indicated in RFC-3023
As I understand, sendin
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/9/2009 6:52:44 PM
Hi,
the discussion about who caused XSLT "to fail" reminded me of an
*actual* XSLT issue I recently found with IE.
The problem seems to occur when serving XML with an XSLT PI, and the
XSLT is running in HTML output mode, and is outputting unicode
characters which the selected output
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/9/2009 6:15:20 PM
Elliotte Harold wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 7:02 AM, Michael Kay<mike@saxonica.com> wrote:
>
>> That seems a little unfair. Microsoft introduced an implementation with a
>> pretty high level of conformance quite s
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/9/2009 3:02:37 PM
> XSLT failed to take off on the Web for one reason and one reason only:
> Microsoft Internet Explorer's failure (continuing to this
> day) to properly implement the standard.
That seems a little unfair. Microsoft introduced an implementation with a
pretty high level of conformance qu
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/9/2009 12:22:53 PM
Elliotte Harold wrote:
> XSLT failed to take off on the Web for one reason and one reason only:
> Microsoft Internet Explorer's failure (continuing to this day) to
> properly implement the standard. Had it been possible to use XSLT
> directly on the client side, we'd be working with a
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/9/2009 12:08:48 PM
PROGRAM NOW AVAILABLE
International Symposium on Processing XML Efficiently:
Overcoming Limits on Space, Time, or Bandwidth
Monday August 10, 2009
Hotel Europa, Montréal, Canada
Chair: Michael Kay, Saxonica
Symposium description: http://www.balisage.net/Processing/
Detailed Program: http://www.
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/9/2009 11:44:42 AM
> (b) a transformation model for style that seemed like massive overkill
> compared to the annotation approach of CSS.
>
> The way things turned out, these costs pretty much only get inflicted
on
> people who have problems difficult enough to make them seem
worthwhile.
As the ven
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/9/2009 8:53:23 AM
On Tue, Jun 9, 2009 at 7:02 AM, Michael Kay<mike@saxonica.com> wrote:
> That seems a little unfair. Microsoft introduced an implementation with a
> pretty high level of conformance quite soon after the XSLT standard came
> out.
Micros
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/9/2009 8:01:00 AM
unclear, probably, where I wrote:
>
> They see a simple view of this to add/remove/edit a a video
> instance. I choose not to make it wysiwyg because it would have
> complicated things
They do see a simple wysiwyg-like view, like a list, to edit, just not
how it shows up on a g
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/9/2009 7:55:09 AM
We use Xopus and custom schemas/XSL to make editing content much
easier for our clients. One recent example is this page:
http://mli.contentupdates.com/community/summer-programs/
There is a content piece in the right, narrow column where there are 3
videos that use javascript to swap out the
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/9/2009 6:43:54 AM
On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 6:59 AM, Simon St.Laurent<simonstl@simonstl.com> wrote:
> Yes, of course you can use XSLT on the Web, but there's very little evidence
> that its creators paid attention to how web sites and applications are
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/8/2009 7:56:35 PM
It's probably clear that whatever the definition of "web community"
actually is, from any perspective, it's members adopt or reject XSLT
depending on circumstance. However, I don't think XSLT has failed to
penetrate that community by any measure.
Most web people understand XSLT is
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/8/2009 7:45:39 PM
> Ten years later, it's clearer and clearer why XSL didn't take the Web by
> storm! I guess I really had nothing to worry about.
So what were you worried about - learning XSLT ?
--
Andrew Welch
http://andrewjwelch.com
Kernow: http://kernowforsaxon.sf.net/
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/8/2009 5:57:01 PM
> You asked for guidance, seeming interested in what these
> strange seemingly exclusionary people might have in common.
> When presented with a summary created by a diverse community
> deciding what its center might be, you dismiss it as a mere
> list of technologies.
I don't
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/8/2009 5:26:25 PM
If HTML, CSS, JavaScript, and the DOM, are the technologies which describe the Web community, then it is quite close to XML community ! HTML is a kind of XML, the DOM is a way to manage XML, CSS expressions are quite close to XPath, and it is just a way to change the "style" attribute of
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/8/2009 5:24:44 PM
> Prediction: XSLT will replace XQuery in XRX, or at least
> occupy the view layer (xform creation layer) with XQuery
> purely at the service layer.
I think a variant of XRX that uses XSLT for the view layer has existed since
long before the term XRX was coined. So I'm not sure the ab
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/8/2009 5:15:12 PM
> if you want a reasonable guideline, I'd point to the set of
> technologies on which the Web Standards Project focuses:
>
> http://www.webstandards.org/about/mission/
>
> That's typically HTML, CSS, JavaScript, and the DOM.
But if the "Web community" is define
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/8/2009 5:11:53 PM
>> There is no doubt that people typically either love XSLT or hate it:
>> that's
>> easily confirmed by seeing what people are tweeting. The latter category
>> tend to be those who hoped they could pick it up learning by example in a
>> spare couple of hours, and wer
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/8/2009 3:51:15 PM
Andrew Welch wrote:
>> Ten years later, it's clearer and clearer why XSL didn't take the Web by
>> storm! I guess I really had nothing to worry about.
>
> So what were you worried about - learning XSLT ?
No - I've done that.
I was worried about:
(a) the Web getting a lot har
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/8/2009 3:42:47 PM
> A decade later, it still makes for strange conversation when
> the XML and Web communities wander into each other's turf, though.
I don't think I understand what you mean by the "Web community". Whom does
it exclude?
Regards,
Michael Kay
http://www.saxonica.com/
http://twitte
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/8/2009 3:18:52 PM
> The funny (and frankly sad) thing to me is that the XSLT
> community often still expresses, as above, that the problem
> is that their technology just isn't appreciated enough by
> shallow resentful folks who just want to cut and paste.
>
> Like that'll help. It sure didn'
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/8/2009 2:55:24 PM
No, you've got the wrong idea of what redefinition does. It allows you to
take a "standard" schema like say the FpML schema, and customise it for your
own use by adding additional constraints. Redefining a type affects all the
places in your schema where that type is used; it doesn't all
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/8/2009 2:26:33 PM
Thanks again Michael.
I think a customized version of the schema may be actually what I need
here.
I need my <p> to be different in 'main.xsd', but <p> is part of the
model of a number of elements in the core 'struct.xsd' (e.g. elements
for list items, hierarchical 'blocks' of text
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/8/2009 1:47:33 PM
Michael Kay wrote:
>> You asked for guidance, seeming interested in what these
>> strange seemingly exclusionary people might have in common.
>> When presented with a summary created by a diverse community
>> deciding what its center might be, you dismiss it as a mere
&
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/8/2009 12:28:30 PM
the ubiquity of a technology in every browser doesn't necc mean it
will be used ... For example, SVG which has pretty good coverage these
days, is at best a slow burn when it comes to adoption.
wondering if Google implementation of XSLT makes life any better
http://code.google.com/p/ajaxslt/
Ji
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/8/2009 12:26:06 PM
Michael Kay wrote:
>> if you want a reasonable guideline, I'd point to the set of
>> technologies on which the Web Standards Project focuses:
>>
>> http://www.webstandards.org/about/mission/
>>
>> That's typically HTML, CSS, JavaScript, and the DOM.
>
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/8/2009 12:14:19 PM
Andrew Welch wrote:
>>> There is no doubt that people typically either love XSLT or hate it:
>>> that's
>>> easily confirmed by seeing what people are tweeting. The latter category
>>> tend to be those who hoped they could pick it up learning by example in a
>
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/8/2009 11:54:22 AM
Liam Quin wrote:
> In general, if you define a social construct in terms of technologies,
> you're going to become obsolete...
Sure - communities come and go. That's just normal. These particular
technologies have demonstrated wide reach and staying power, however,
and I think it's safe
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/8/2009 11:30:29 AM
On Mon, Jun 08, 2009 at 11:00:29AM -0400, Simon St.Laurent wrote:
> By "Web community" I mean the people for whom the Web is their first
> (and often exclusive) development target. Its borders are complex, but
> if you want a reasonable guideline, I'd point to the set of
&g
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/8/2009 11:24:31 AM
Hello Nico,
> Concerning the lack of namespace axis support in firefox, there is a
> bug fixed : https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=94270 but
> waiting to be loaded. The last problem is to say if the XSLT expression :
>
> <xsl:value-of
> select="string(count(
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/8/2009 11:09:44 AM
If the content model for the <p> element is different depending on the
context where it appears, then you should be using a local element
declaration for <p>. xs:redefine does something quite different: it creates
a customized version of a schema. The effect of xs:redefine is global -
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/8/2009 11:04:19 AM
>On the comment of whether XSLT is "despised" by these client/server
developers
There is no doubt that people typically either love XSLT or hate it: that's
easily confirmed by seeing what people are tweeting. The latter category
tend to be those who hoped they could pick it up learni
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/8/2009 11:00:29 AM
Michael Kay wrote:
>> A decade later, it still makes for strange conversation when
>> the XML and Web communities wander into each other's turf, though.
>
> I don't think I understand what you mean by the "Web community". Whom does
> it exclude?
By "Web commu
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/8/2009 10:52:04 AM
Thanks Michael,
Thanks also to George, with essentially the same solution, and to Lech
for suggesting NVDL.
Having two schemas that import each other still seems kind of circular,
but better than my rickety chain of imports, and XMLSpy allows it.
The reason for using xs:redefine was that I want
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/8/2009 10:41:18 AM
Concerning the lack of namespace axis support in firefox, there is a bug fixed : https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=94270 but waiting to be loaded. The last problem is to say if the XSLT expression :
<xsl:value-of select="string(count(nsa:data/descendant-or-self::*/namespace::*))&
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/8/2009 10:35:02 AM
Michael Kay wrote:
> I don't see it as funny, but I agree it is a little sad. Nevertheless, it is
> true. There's a paradigm shift involved in mastering XSLT for doing anything
> non-trivial, and a lot of programmers will never gain the benefits of the
> technology because they aren't
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/8/2009 10:33:14 AM
> I read that "3" is an XPath 1.0 answer while "8" is an XPath 2.0 answer,
> is it correct ?
No. The answer should be the same (8) in xpath 1 and 2.
The statement in the assertion that it has 3 is wrong.
nsa:data has 2 namespace nodes (with names "xml" an
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/8/2009 9:59:22 AM
Michael Kay wrote:
> There is no doubt that people typically either love XSLT or hate it: that's
> easily confirmed by seeing what people are tweeting. The latter category
> tend to be those who hoped they could pick it up learning by example in a
> spare couple of hours, and were disa
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/8/2009 9:09:57 AM
XMLmind is happy to announce the version 4.4 of XMLmind XML Editor.
_____________________________________________
XMLmind XML Editor Personal Edition 4.4 can be downloaded from
http://www.xmlmind.com/xmleditor/download.shtml
Professional Edition users, please upgrade using this form:
http://
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/8/2009 8:49:30 AM
Hi Robert,
> Opera not handling the document function, but really, who cares?
Opera is not handling the document() function correctly but it exists.
For XSLTForms (http://www.agencexml.com/xsltforms), my client-side
XForms implementation, external schemas are parsed using the document()
func
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/7/2009 4:50:11 PM
Hi,
First: the support is there in browsers (except Opera not handling the
document function, but really, who cares?). Once the templates are
cached (after reading the XSL DOM and parsing to a processor) it i
usually the fastest templating available in the browser. More inline...
On Jun 7
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/7/2009 11:37:19 AM
The time has come," the Walrus said,
"To talk of many things:..." Lewis Carroll.
There seem to be a number of issues here:
1. How prevalent is the use of JSON vs Xml for a client(browser)/server data
format.
2. In the Xml case, how many javascript programmers use DOM vs XSLT.
My
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/5/2009 10:41:14 PM
Hello,
I'm in charge of XSLTForms project which is a client-side XForms
implementation based on XSLT 1.0 to convert XForms to (X)HTML+Javascript
(http://www.agencexml.com/xsltforms).
XSLTForms transformation is complex and uses almost every feature in
XSLT 1.0. Curiously, FireFox is the only
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/5/2009 8:47:42 PM
> Do people agree with Peter Hunsberger in that:
>
> "I think the industry has somewhat decided to ignore client
> side XSLT and moved on. "
Our industry is incredibly unscientific in the way people make such
hand-waving statements, based usually on what people heard last
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/5/2009 7:12:47 PM
I should imagine the vast majority of people with a computer that has been
purchased or updated in the last five years will have no difficulty
displaying web pages that rely on client-side XSLT 1.0 support in the
browser.
If your target audience includes mobile devices, or people with ancient
com
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/5/2009 7:02:29 PM
On Jun 5, 2009, at 6:41 PM, Liam Quin wrote:
> On Fri, Jun 05, 2009 at 04:01:38PM -0400, Robert Koberg wrote:
>> I wish it weren't so, believe me. But follow some javascript oriented
>> lists. Look for support for XSL in the popular (even unpopular) JS
>> libraries.
>
>
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/5/2009 6:41:41 PM
On Fri, Jun 05, 2009 at 04:01:38PM -0400, Robert Koberg wrote:
> I wish it weren't so, believe me. But follow some javascript oriented
> lists. Look for support for XSL in the popular (even unpopular) JS
> libraries.
It's true that the javaScript interfaces to XSLT are sucky. I
thin
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/5/2009 5:12:07 PM
At 04:41 PM 6/5/2009, COUTHURES Alain wrote:
>XSLT 1.0 support in browsers is not a problem anymore, in fact.
>Except Konqueror, every common browser supports XSLT 1.0. Even
>IE5.5, because of MSXML, correctly performs the XSLTForms transformation.
I understand the "newer" br
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/5/2009 4:09:15 PM
>
>>Wouldn't web search and other functionality be better if we didn't
>>have presentation based content as the main source on the web?
>
>I am not sure what you mean here, but google is built to understand
>HTML in the wild.
If the markup that was on the web had semantic
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/5/2009 4:01:38 PM
On Jun 5, 2009, at 3:47 PM, Michael Kay wrote:
>> Do people agree with Peter Hunsberger in that:
>>
>> "I think the industry has somewhat decided to ignore client
>> side XSLT and moved on. "
>
> Our industry is incredibly unscientific in the way people ma
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/5/2009 3:40:23 PM
On Jun 5, 2009, at 3:07 PM, Dan Vint wrote:
> Thanks I don't really need to serve the content this way and I don't
> have control of the server side. My audience is wide so I need to
> consider if I want to cut some one off. By serving the content
> dynamically I can save some
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/5/2009 3:07:09 PM
Thanks I don't really need to serve the content this way and I don't
have control of the server side. My audience is wide so I need to
consider if I want to cut some one off. By serving the content
dynamically I can save some trouble the next time I update the
presentation, but its not a show
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/5/2009 1:54:33 PM
What is the state of using XML (not xhtml) and xslt stylesheets to
serve up documents on the client side with a browser? I'm refactoring
a website of mine to manage the content in XML.
I'll be building some XSLT to produce XHTML from this content, I was
just wondering if it is safe to serve th
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/5/2009 1:11:20 PM
On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 12:54 PM, Dan Vint <dvint@dvint.com> wrote:
> What is the state of using XML (not xhtml) and xslt stylesheets to serve up
> documents on the client side with a browser? I'm refactoring a website of
> mine to
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/4/2009 10:03:23 PM
Hi Mark,
Making your document well-formed
<doc>
<div>
<title>Section 1</title>
<p>Some text...</p>
<p>
<law:extract xmlns:law="http://www.example.com/law">
<title>Title of Regulation</title>
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/4/2009 6:32:14 PM
Unfortunately the topic of schema composition is one where the spec isn't
all that prescriptive, and where in consequence there are differences
between implementations.
Having said that, I can't see why you have three schema documents or why you
are trying to use xs:redefine.
You should have two
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/4/2009 6:03:26 PM
The problem is bigger than you think, and quite honestly is more
conceptual that technical.
I would suggest separate schemas for main content and law extracts and
using NVDL for dispatching to a relevant schema.
In main.xsd allow for any elements from the 'law' namespace and it
should work fine.
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/4/2009 5:35:25 PM
Hello,
I'm new to XML Schemas, and investigating conversion of a DTD to an XML
Schema. I have a problem describing the Schema version of the following
structure:
<doc>
<div>
<title>Section 1</title>
<p>Some text...</p>
<p>
<law:extraxt>
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Posted
6/4/2009 3:48:21 PM
On Wednesday 03 June 2009 19:31, Costello, Roger L. wrote:
> I'd like for us to nail down exactly what we mean by "descriptive markup"
> and "algorithmic markup."
On Thursday 04 June 2009 03:06, Michael Kay wrote:
> Why, what do you hope to achieve?
I thought the
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/4/2009 2:35:35 PM
Costello, Roger L. wrote:
> Hi Folks,
>
> I'd like for us to nail down exactly what we mean by "descriptive markup" and "algorithmic markup." Here's a stab at it:
>
>
> 1. XML documents just contain markup and data. There are no semantics in XML documents. An
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Posted
6/4/2009 2:18:07 PM
"mimsy markup"Ah, I WONDERED what this mess of an ontology I had handed to me was called.Kurt CagleManaging Editorhttp://xmlToday.org
On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 12:06 AM, Michael Kay <mike@saxonica.com> wrote:
> I'd like for us to n
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Posted
6/4/2009 8:38:25 AM
XML Prague 2010 March 13th & 14th
XML Prague is a conference on XML for developers, markup geeks,
information managers, and students. Here is a rough timetable and we
will keep everyone updated via the regular channels and the website.
Aug 2009 - Topics Announced
Sept 2009 - Registration Ope
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Posted
6/4/2009 8:06:40 AM
> I'd like for us to nail down exactly what we mean by
> "descriptive markup" and "algorithmic markup."
Why, what do you hope to achieve?
What's the benefit of inventing terms and then struggling to find a meaning
for them?
Why not search for meanings for "frabj
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Posted
6/3/2009 9:47:03 PM
On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 6:31 PM, Costello, Roger L. <costello@mitre.org> wrote:
>
> Hi Folks,
>
> I'd like for us to nail down exactly what we mean by "descriptive markup" and "algorithmic markup."
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/3/2009 9:26:19 PM
The nub of the argument here is essentially the question of what exactly is meant by semantics in a computational sense. Until this question can be answered formally and completely, we're just arguing about interpretations.
My own take, as a non-programmer:1) If I define a schema or ontology, t
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Posted
6/3/2009 9:05:56 PM
" For applications faithful to the semantics
specified by the prose, the XML vocabulary
is algorithmic markup."
I think the algorithm can be denotated by the XML markup, but the
operational semantics are still the application's whether actual or
abstract. Axiomatic semanti
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Posted
6/3/2009 7:31:19 PM
Hi Folks,
I'd like for us to nail down exactly what we mean by "descriptive markup" and "algorithmic markup." Here's a stab at it:
1. XML documents just contain markup and data. There are no semantics in XML documents. An XML document is just syntax.
2. A software applica
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Posted
6/3/2009 6:54:11 PM
The peer-reviewed part of the Balisage 2009 program has been scheduled.
As usual, we have reserved a few slots on the
program for presentation of "late-breaking"
material. Proposals for late-breaking
presentations are due on June 19th. For details
see:
Call for Late-breaking News:
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/3/2009 5:06:42 PM
I guess we could ask if Roger means operational, denotational or axiomatic
semantics or punt to context change potential, but outside of that or trying
a different model (coherence as union of declarative and functional models),
we rehash a lot of permathreads. I like the coherence models because
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Posted
6/3/2009 6:27:11 AM
There is a compiler-compiler-type system: the LR-Parsing Framework of
FXSL. It uses a slightly modified YACC to produce the set of rules and
LR parsing tables in XML. These are used by a general LR parser
written entirely in XSLT.
An example of the use of this component is the json-document()
fun
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Posted
6/3/2009 12:23:34 AM
> Alan Danziger wrote:
>
> > Passive documents specify information but do not specify in-band or
> > out-of-band anything about how that information should be used.
>
> > Active documents contains in-band or out-of-band processing
> rules for
> > its use.
&
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Posted
6/2/2009 8:31:47 PM
I don't really get this because of the Alabama accent, but I think I
agree.
On Jun 2, 2009, at 8:19 PM, Len Bullard wrote:
> Greg:
>
> “How do you exclude assumed semantics?”
>
> What is a satisfactory semantic for ‘semantic’? We imagine we
> u
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Posted
6/2/2009 8:17:49 PM
I usually don't top post, but this is a general comment -- not
responding to anyone in particular.
It depends who/what is using the XML. Is an XSL document declarative
or passive? What is XSL to an something like oXygen XML editor when a
user is editing that XSL? What is an XSL doc that you
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Posted
6/2/2009 7:51:26 PM
At 7:01 PM -0400 6/2/09, Costello, Roger L. wrote:
>I want to identify those characteristics that make an XML document
>declarative and those characteristics that make an XML document
>passive.
This, I think, could be interesting and useful. The more we know
about our documents, the b
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Posted
6/2/2009 7:45:18 PM
You might want to check out the open source ServingXML tool, downloadable from http://servingxml.sourceforge.net/. It supports a wide range of flat/XML, XML/flat, flat/flat, and XML/XML transformations, using an extensible mark up vocabulary to specify the transformation. It supports csv files,
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Posted
6/2/2009 7:19:23 PM
Greg:
“How do you exclude assumed semantics?”
What is a satisfactory semantic for ‘semantic’?
We imagine we understand it then default to syntax. We “assume”.
Semantics default to systems. Rick&#
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Posted
6/2/2009 7:01:33 PM
Rick Jelliffe wrote:
> The opposite of "declarative" is "algorithmic":
> declarative says what you want, algorithmic says
> how you do it.
Rick also wrote:
> XSLT is declarative when using the template and
> XPaths, but algorithmic when using recursion.
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Posted
6/2/2009 4:43:14 PM
Fuzziness is not only a feature of quantum mechanics, its a core feature of human communication... and that fuzziness is what causes Roger's desire for self-contained/processing-semantics-free and processing contexst-free documents to break down. How do you exclude assumed semantics?
I'm
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Posted
6/2/2009 3:12:10 PM
ycao5@scs.carleton.ca wrote:
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> I want to ask one question about covering text to xml file. Is
> there any way to attach a schema to a text document and parse it into
> xml according the rules
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Posted
6/1/2009 11:01:59 PM
Oh, god, we're entering into the world of quantum XML!!Overall, however, I'm not sure this is the most accurate conceptual metaphor. I'm much more inclined to see various potentially overlapping models as being frames of reference in describing reality, in essence more of a relativistic
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Posted
6/1/2009 10:37:49 PM
I published a case-study of something similar at an IDEAlliance conference
in 2004 I think. Sadly IDEAlliance have removed all the proceedings of these
conferences from the open web (which I am sure will make it much harder for
them to attract speakers at future conferences), but I found a late dr
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Posted
6/1/2009 10:12:39 PM
The concept analogizes semantic coherence to interferometric visibility and
semantic intensity to intent of communicative speech act as expressed in the
syntax.
Treat the name and label particles like wave functions where each element
has intensity.
What would the coherence/decoherence proper
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Posted
6/1/2009 9:05:53 PM
>
> I want to ask one question about covering text to xml
> file. Is there any way to attach a schema to a text document
> and parse it into xml according the rules defined in the
> schema? Can I find such kind a tool, otherwise I plan to
> write one myself. Please give
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Posted
6/1/2009 8:53:48 PM
To be more succinct: you are fixing probabilities by entangling systems.
Div and Warning are entangled names fixed by order where they would
otherwise be equally probable as name and label particles if not entangled
by the rendering system.
A coherence.
len
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Posted
6/1/2009 6:13:21 PM
The information conveyed is the same. The apriori reliabilities of the
processors shift feet.
A Warning is a label which in SGML terms was just a name.
A Warning is a name the human reader interprets easily but the program must
be written specifically for the name.
A Div is a signal to the form
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Posted
6/1/2009 5:09:24 PM
Hello Michael,
Can you recommend some good tutorial on it? I want to take a
look at it and use it.
thanks,
Yang
Quoting Michael Kay <mike@saxonica.com>:
>>
>> I want to ask one question about covering text to xml
>> fil
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Posted
6/1/2009 5:03:22 PM
Costello, Roger L. wrote:
> Do you agree that this stylesheet document is not a declarative XML document?
>
I don't think the opposite of "declarative" is really "procedural". The
opposite of "procedural" is "functional". XSLT considered function
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Posted
6/1/2009 4:45:16 PM
Costello, Roger L. wrote:
> I assert that documents that have no inherent processing semantics have substantial benefits in terms of reusing them and mining them and mashing them up.
>
This is the old SGML idea of taking out *all* processing semantics and
then having another layer to add
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Posted
6/1/2009 4:15:13 PM
Position available: research engineer
The PPS laboratory (http://pps.jussieu.fr) is recruiting a Research Engineer
for 2 years (22 months) possessing a good skill in (Ca)ML programming. The
position will be available in fall 2009.
Keywords: XML, CDuce, Ocsigen, web-services, ocaml
Task:
The re
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Posted
6/1/2009 3:52:56 PM
Hello everyone,
I want to ask one question about covering text to xml file. Is
there any way to attach a schema to a text document and parse it into
xml according the rules defined in the schema? Can I find such kind a
tool, otherwise I plan to write one myself. Please give me some
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/1/2009 2:58:33 PM
G. Ken Holman wrote:
> I think it is more than folklore and you've remembered it correctly. I
> ask my students who have worked with XSLT if they have wondered why the
> namespace prefix "xsl:" is used in examples instead of "xslt:".
<grin/> Except by Ken H
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Posted
6/1/2009 2:04:44 PM
Roger--
I guess I'd like to hear more about some of the definitions you're
using, right now in particular definitions for "symbiotic
relationships" and "processing semantics". In the case of "symbiotic
relationships", one definition requires that the relations
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Posted
6/1/2009 1:48:51 PM
Roger,I'd say that the continuum than you mention does not so much have documents placed along it, but it has usage scenarios placed along it and a document may appear anywhere along that continuum depending on what is being done with it. An example: surveying XML document sizes (content almo
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Posted
6/1/2009 1:11:00 PM
Balisage 2009 Program Announced
[FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE]
Rockville, Maryland. The organizing committee has released the
program for "Balisage 2009: The Markup
Conference" to be held in Montreal from 11 to 14
August, 2009.
The program can be found in two forms:
Schedule at a Glan
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/1/2009 1:02:53 PM
On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 07:26:16PM -0400, G. Ken Holman wrote:
[...]
> In the DOM the input tree *is* the output tree, unlike
> XSLT and XQuery where the input tree is read-only and the output tree
> is write-only:
A very minor point --
Note that for XQuery, with updates, that's no lon
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Posted
6/1/2009 12:55:33 PM
Michael Kay wrote:
>>> From http://www.w3.org/TR/1999/REC-xslt-19991116
>>>
>> XSLT is not intended as a completely general-purpose XML
>> transformation language. Rather it is designed primarily
>> for the kinds of transformations that are needed when XSLT
&
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Posted
6/1/2009 11:47:31 AM
> > From http://www.w3.org/TR/1999/REC-xslt-19991116
> >
> XSLT is not intended as a completely general-purpose XML
> transformation language. Rather it is designed primarily
> for the kinds of transformations that are needed when XSLT
> is used as part of XSL.
>
I
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/1/2009 11:17:32 AM
> From http://www.w3.org/TR/1999/REC-xslt-19991116
>
> XSLT is not intended as a completely general-purpose XML
> transformation language. Rather it is designed primarily
> for the kinds of transformations that are needed when XSLT
> is used as part of XSL.
Heh, that's inter
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Posted
6/1/2009 10:56:03 AM
[...]
The vast majority of XML I work with is RDF/XML. I consider that pretty
purely declarative in that it is a carrier notation for simple logical
claims. In other words, content that carries logical claims about the
world that could (at least ideally) be considered true or false,
informat
. . . Read full entry »
Posted
6/1/2009 9:13:42 AM
At 2009-06-01 12:55 +0100, DavePawson wrote:
>Michael Kay wrote:
>>>> From http://www.w3.org/TR/1999/REC-xslt-19991116
>>> XSLT is not intended as a completely general-purpose XML
>>> transformation language. Rather it is designed primarily
>>> for the
. . . Read full entry »
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