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Re: Vocabulary Combination and optional namespaces

• Subject: Re: Vocabulary Combination and optional namespaces
• From: james anderson <james.anderson@s...>
• Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 15:34:31 +0200
• Cc: xml-dev <xml-dev@l...>
• Organization: nil
• References: <ab7bdvs3gol4j4trlefsiq6g4bfbaou70f@4...> <3ED5B096.9080102@t...> <3ED6062E.4080403@b...> <002801c325e8$9b883060$a000a8c0@SeairthA31> <3ED61653.20209@b...> <umsddv448lhhshot9gjlge6fivn46elk1a@4...>
• Reply-to: james.anderson@s...

Arjun Ray wrote:
> 
> "Simon St.Laurent" <simonstl@s...> wrote:
> 
> | It seems like namespaces aimed at diambiguation with the "let's create
> | big long names" approach, and then had to abbreviate the big long names
> | to keep the language usable.
> 
> Basically, yes.  The inveterate metaphysical babbling about "global
> uniqueness" or whatever is just smoke to make up for the lack of a fire.

could someone explain how the "generic vocabulary combination" problem would
be any different if the given initial logical document were encoded as

<zero>
 <one><twelve>Book Review<twelve></one>
 <two>
  <three>
   <four>XML: A Primer</four>
   <five>
    <six align="center">
     <seven>Author</seven><seven>Price</seven>
     <seven>Pages</seven><seven>Date</seven>
     </six>
    <six align="left">
     <seven><eight>Simon St. Laurent</eight></seven>
     <seven><nine>31.98</nine></seven>
     <seven><ten>352</ten></seven>
     <seven><eleven>1998/01</eleven></seven>
     </six>
    </five>
   </three>
  </two>
 </zero>

or as

<zero>
 <one><two>Book Review<two></one>
 <two>
  <three>
   <four>XML: A Primer</four>
   <five>
    <six align="center">
     <seven>Author</seven><seven>Price</seven>
     <seven>Pages</seven><seven>Date</seven>
     </six>
    <six align="left">
     <seven><eight>Simon St. Laurent</eight></seven>
     <seven><nine>31.98</nine></seven>
     <seven><ten>352</ten></seven>
     <seven><eleven>1998/01</eleven></seven>
     </six>
    </five>
   </three>
  </two>
 </zero>

or even as

<zero>
 <one><one>Book Review<one></one>
 <two>
  <one>
   <one>XML: A Primer</one>
   <two>
    <one align="center">
     <one>Author</one><one>Price</one>
     <one>Pages</one><one>Date</one>
     </one>
    <one align="left">
     <one><one>Simon St. Laurent</one></one>
     <one><two>31.98</two></one>
     <one><three>352</three></one>
     <one><four>1998/01</four></one>
     </one>
    </two>
   </one>
  </two>
 </zero>


that is, absent even the attribute-encoded identifiers introduced in the
xml-map example.
and why it would be the same problem if the document were encoded as

<zero>
 <one><one>Book Review<one></one>
 <one>
  <one>
   <one>XML: A Primer</one>
   <one>
    <one align="center">
     <one>Author</one><one>Price</one>
     <one>Pages</one><one>Date</one>
     </one>
    <one align="left">
     <one><one>Simon St. Laurent</one></one>
     <one><two>31.98</two></one>
     <one><three>352</three></one>
     <one><four>1998/01</four></one>
     </one>
    </one>
   </one>
  </one>
 </zero>

absent a clear explanation, it would be more productive to leave namespaces
out of the discussion.

> [... xml-map example ...]
> 
> | The problem comes about if you tried to combine RSS with another XML
> | vocabulary whose elements also resided in the nil namespace.
> 
> No problem as long as markup is used to tell the difference.  Heck, that's
> what markup is for!
> 
> The interesting fact is that not only are colons or multi-part names not
> needed for this,

then leave them out of the its discussion.

>    but also such syntactically intrusive devices can
> complicate or preclude solving the problem in the general case.

i don't recall you mentioning this issue before. examples please. i
implemented the xml-map mechanism as initially proposed. it's a while back,
but my recollection is that it was a strictly post-interned-names operation.
which means completely unlrelated to any namespace-related operations and/or
lexical properties.

> 
> In fact, I've demonstrated a class of methods (using control attributes)
> to solve these problems:
> 
>   1.  Allow any vocabulary to be mapped to any partition of the document.
>   2.  Allow this for multiple vocabularies uniformly, catering to both
>       exclusion and overlap.
> 
> Not just that, I've done it with nary a colonified name in sight.  Never
> mind that I don't even have "xlink:href versus html:src" problems here!
> 
> And for that, I'm supposed to be a troll?  Sheesh.

then leave namespaces out of the discussions. if one insists on bringing in
something which is not technically relevant, the reader wonders if the
motivations are technical or rhetorical.

...

• Follow-Ups:
  • Re: Vocabulary Combination and optional namespaces
    • From: Arjun Ray <aray@n...>

• References:
  • Vocabulary Combination
    • From: Arjun Ray <aray@n...>
  • Re: Vocabulary Combination
    • From: Tim Bray <tbray@t...>
  • Vocabulary Combination and optional namespaces
    • From: Joe Gregorio <joe@b...>
  • Re: Vocabulary Combination and optional namespaces
    • From: "Seairth Jacobs" <seairth@s...>
  • Re: Vocabulary Combination and optional namespaces
    • From: Joe Gregorio <joe@b...>
  • Re: Vocabulary Combination and optional namespaces
    • From: Arjun Ray <aray@n...>

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