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RE: Will XML Schema 1.1 get traction?
- From: "Len Bullard" <Len.Bullard@ses-i.com>
- To: "Toby Considine" <Toby.Considine@gmail.com>,<stephengreenubl@g...>,"Costello, Roger L." <costello@m...>
- Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2012 08:49:26 -0500
Chicken and egg.
The impact of concern is the degree to
which legacy limits features and fielding. For example, I am neck deep in DTDs
because there is too little perceived value by the customer in retooling and
respecifying the GFI (Government Furnished Information) such as the stylesheets
and DTDs. Over time someone has to make a value case for the investment which
is why I bring up flaws I am seeing the products, the processes and the
follow-on costs as a result of lingering. Sometimes it takes a big impact such
as the problem of going to inexpensive but effective mobile devices to deliver
the information into hard to access locations where the infrastructure is poor,
non-existent or hostile.
len
From: Toby Considine
[mailto:tobyconsidine@gmail.com] On Behalf Of
Toby Considine
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2012
8:40 AM
To: stephengreenubl@gmail.com;
'Costello, Roger L.'
Cc: xml-dev@lists.xml.org
Subject: RE: Will XML
Schema 1.1 get traction?
The real issue, I
fear, is how many tools support it.
Lots of folks would
use it as long as the object shim next to the data is generated by someone
else.
Lots of folks would
use it as soon as their front end processors does.
Early last Fall (the
last time I looked hard) there was minimal tooling, and less in the .NET space.
tc
"If something
is not worth doing, it`s not worth doing well" - Peter Drucker
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Toby Considine
TC9, Inc
TC Chair: oBIX
& WS-Calendar
TC Editor: EMIX,
EnergyInterop
U.S.
National Inst. of Standards and Tech. Smart Grid Architecture Committee
|
|
Email: Toby.Considine@gmail.com
Phone: (919)619-2104
http://www.tcnine.com/
blog: www.NewDaedalus.com
|
From: Stephen D Green
[mailto:stephengreenubl@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2012
9:08 AM
To: Costello, Roger L.
Cc: xml-dev@lists.xml.org
Subject: Re: Will XML
Schema 1.1 get traction?
Use Case: Use of XML Schema 1.1 to strongly type a .NET DataSet
i.e. Whether code which previously used XML Schema 1.0 for
strongly typed
'datasets' and supplemented that dataset with checks on co-constraints
in handwritten code or in a combination of code and stored business
rule
logic in a database or a file - whether that code would benefit from a
use
of XML Schema 1.1 to associate the co-constraint business rules somehow
with the strongly typed 'datasets'.
Following on from Ken's message about the UBL use case, I must admit
that in my use case above I tend to think the co-constraints are in
many
real situations going to benefit from being easier to change than if
they were
embedded in an XML Schema deep within the code. Putting such volatile
things as co-constraint logic in such a relatively inaccessible place
as an
XML schema used to support the typing of a DataSet or similar structure
does seem sub-optimal for your average business application.
On 14 August 2012 13:49, Stephen D Green <stephengreenubl@gmail.com>
wrote:
As a C# / SQL Server developer by day and XML enthusiast by night I've
witnessed a great
synergy between XML Schema 1.0 and the database where tons of code can
be circumvented
with a schema-typed 'dataset' within the code and a corresponding
database set of tables in
the database. The missing piece was a way to add co-constraints with a
similar reduction in
the amount of code a so-armed web developer needed to write. At
the moment it seems a
developer still spends a lot of time writing code for business rules
which actually amount to
little more than coded co-constraints (co-constraints on the data in
tables and corresponding
data structures/types). It would seem to me a good progression
toward less code and more
agility to add co-constraints a la XML Schema 1.1 in .NET. In the
meantime I'll carry on coding
all those business rule co-constraints myself or dumping them into
a table - keeps me in a job.
On 14 August 2012 13:22, Costello, Roger L. <costello@mitre.org>
wrote:
Hi Folks,
XML Schema 1.1 became a full recommendation on April 5, 2012.
Are organizations using it? Are you using it?
In my small world there hasn't been an overwhelming uptake of it. Perhaps that
will change, however.
XML Schema 1.0 became a full recommendation on October 28, 2004.
So there has been eight years for organizations to spend a lot of time and
money developing 1.0 schemas. In the process, those organizations discovered
that 1.0 was lacking in certain capabilities (such as co-constraint checking)
so they supplemented XSD 1.0 with Schematron.
Now, in 2012, organizations are well entrenched in their 1.0 XSDs plus their
Schematron schemas. They have invested heavily in these technologies. And they
have expertise in these technologies. And there is good support for these
technologies.
What incentive do organizations have for moving to XML Schema 1.1?
There are some things provided by 1.1 that can't be accomplished using the
combination of 1.0 plus Schematron. And 1.1 makes some things more
convenient. Are they sufficient to justify switching?
Perhaps it would have been better for 1.1 to have provided radical new
capabilities -- capabilities that totally cannot be obtained with the existing
combination of 1.0 plus Schematron.
What do you think? Will XML Schema 1.1 be embraced by the XML community?
Or, will it be turned aside and organizations continue with the investments
they have already made in 1.0 and Schematron?
Was the duration between 1.0 and 1.1 too long? In the eight year duration the
world has changed. Have those changes impacted the usefulness of 1.1?
Would it be useful to create an XML Schema 1.2 that provides radical new
capabilities? If yes, what radical new capabilities do you desire?
/Roger
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