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RE: Re: 3 XML Design Principles [T2005013101A6]

• To: len.bullard@i...
• Subject: RE: Re: 3 XML Design Principles [T2005013101A6]
• From: listenercare@x...
• Date: Tue, 1 Feb 2005 15:08:53 -0500 (EST)
• Cc: "Roger L. Costello" <costello@m...>, xml-dev@l...

On January 31 2005 at 16:29:21 EST Bullard, Claude L (Len) <len.bullard@i...> wrote:
> Slightly orthogonal, yes, but to demonstrate that even the data head
> vs document head perspectives on XML leave out what can
> be done with XML, so one should be very wary of best
> practices without understanding the underlying model of
> the application.   VRML had a way of exposing my preconceived
> notions from SGML as the humbugs they were.  The X3D
> experience, even moreso, since in that, the assumptions
> of XML and XSD got pushed to the edge.  Real time object
> models are not really documents or data in the way many
> think about those things.  X3D is a modeling language
> and a real time animation rendering.  The advantages
> to that from XML are not *as* great as one suspects,
> and there are some penalties.  There are benefits,
> but again, not nearly as many as in transactions,
> serialized documents, data base export/imports, etc.
>
> In interchange applications, ummm... ok some but mainly
> the same:  no new parse, some validation, good db tools,
> quick and dirty editors (not really good ones either
> because modeling is interactive graphics modeling and
> the XML generic tree editors aren't the best approach).
>
> So XML for graphics is a good thing, but no magic and less juju.
>
> Tim Bray said it best when X3D was getting started:  get
> the object model right first.   The markup model is
> trivial after that.
>
> But tossing in the best practices without knowing the
> object model? That won't be trivial at all, and in fact,
> can lead to some really ugly designs.  Keep in mind
> WHY you use XML and optimize for that.
>
> len
>
>
>
> From: Jeff Rafter [mailto:lists@j...]
>
> > OTOH, since ROUTEs are from DEF names to DEF names, USEd
> > objects can get you in trouble.  If for example, you
> > send a transform to the rotation field, all of the
> > USE'd objects spin.
>
> In SVG this is roughly similar-- but in general because of the box model
> the rotations are cumulative-- so you can rotate a rotation without much
> penalty. Where things get sticky in SVG is calculating out the CSS
> inheritance and selectors. Applying textures maybe similar-- but
> multiply that against all of the possible CSS properties and you don't
> end up saving much time with regard to performance. To be fair to
> Roger's original post, this is a slightly orthogonal tangent... it is
> just a real world example where an id/idref mechanism isn't all it is
> cracked up to be. Or in Len's case, is a far better approach.
>
> Cheers,
> Jeff Rafter
>
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