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[XML-DEV Mailing List Archive Home] [By Thread] [By Date] [Recent Entries] [Reply To This Message] Re: Edi complexity, does ebxml really reduce it?
 Thanks, i actually found a paper by you on the subject via google, your link #2 looks especially promising. Quoting Sacha Schlegel <sacha_ml@s...>: > Hi Bry > > See my comments below. > > On Tue, 2004-07-13 at 10:52 +0200, bry@i... wrote: > > > > Whenever one examines one of the ebxml specs or reads an article on the > subject > > there is likely to be a reference to how edi had problems with being > accepted > > because it was too complex, but luckily ebxml, being based on xml, solves > all > > this. A very suspect class of assertion it seems like to me. I'm wondering > if > > anyone who has familiarity with these technologies can clarify exactly how > and > > in what ways ebxml reduces the complexity of edi. > > > > Basically my understanding is that ebxml just wrapped the edi model in xml, > so I > > have a hard time seeing how it could be simpler. > > > > Also am wondering about CPAs in Ebxml, it strikes me that this process > could > > actually be somewhat onerous, does anyone know of any case studies etc. > on > > problems with making CPAs between two companies? > > > > In my research (masters degree) I am/was looking at the "ebXML > Collaboration Protocol Agreement formation process". > > This is the process to get from two ebXML Collaboration Protocol > Profiles (CPP) to a Collaboration Protocol Agreement (CPA). > > This process can be divided into 2 subporcesses: > > 1) The CPA (template) composition > 2) The CPA negotiation > > Some more comments on these two processes: > > 1) CPA composition > ------------------ > > The algorithmic CPA composition process is described in the ebXML CPPA > Specification in Appendix E. Basically a tool reads two CPPs and checks > their XML elements and attributes to make sure they match. Matching > elements and attributes go into a new CPA template. Problematic elements > and attributes go into a gap list (a problem or conflict list). > > So this algorithm can check two CPP's pretty good and finds > inconsitencies in the two input documents. The CPP describes how a ebXML > Business process for example is technically realised. For example the > CPA composition algorithm has to check if the selected transport > protocol of the two CPP's is the same, that the version of the transport > protocol is the same etc. Also such an algorithm has to check that one > party sends a business document and that the other side can receive that > business document. > > One important part is the business process which is referenced in the > two CPP's. Bascially if they reference a different business process the > two CPP's are incompatible. There is/was a research project "Matching of > ebXML Business Processes" from Dennis Krukkert, Version 0.31, Status: In > Progress which tried to look at two different business process and to > evaluate if even two different business process are somewhat compatible > (some comments here[1]). > > Concerning the gap list ... these are conflicts which most likely have > to be solved by a phone call, or meeting. So no full automation here, > BUT a way to look at 2 CPP's and create a CPA template and a gap list. > So this is a start. > > 2) CPA negotiation > ------------------ > > There is a subcommittee of the OASIS CPPA technical committee looking at > the automated negotiation of a CPA. The "Automated Negotiation of CPA" > specification of that subcommittee has version 0.10 (so still early > stage). > > This specification introduces the CPA negotiation. Each CPP has already > a limited set of negotiation capabilites, such as listing alternatives. > Eg. one party can list several supported ways to deliver documments but > in the end (in the CPA) two parties select only ONE way to deliver > documents. > > This specification introduces Negotion Description Document (NDD) which > are associated with a CPP or a CPA template. An NDD lists elements and > attributes of a CPP or CPA template which can be negotiated. In the CPA > composition process these new NDD docuemnts are included to maybe find a > solution of problems that would go into the gap list otherwise. The CPA > composition tool will have to merge the two NDD's of the input CPP's to > a NDD for the CPA template. > > This specfication does further introduce the CPA negotiation. In the CPA > negotiation one party sends a CPA template (from the CPA composition > tool) as well as the NDD associated with that CPA template to the other > party. This is called the "initial CPA offer". The second party then has > 3 options: > > o reject intitial offer (results in a failure of the negotiation) > o accept intitial offer (if there are no open issues the CPA template > will become the final CPA) > o send a counter offer. > > The two party's can send counter offers back and forth until, hopefully, > they reach a final CPA. > > Please remember that the CPA negotiation is a negotiation on a technical > level (we use http version 1.1 as transport protocol) and not on a > business level (eg if you buy within 5 days you get 10% discount). > > This negotiation process is itself a collaborative business process and > is described as an ebXML collaborative business process. The > sepcification does provide the ebXML Business Process XML instance > (negotiation business process), a CPA Skeleton, the structure of > negotiation messages, the negotiation protocol and negotiation rules. > > Actually the specification DOES provide the infrastructure to negotiated > a CPA. Unfortunately the specification DOES NOT provide negotiation > algorithms or negotiation strategies how to actully negotiate over those > elements and attributes listed in the NDD. > > Thoes negotiation algorithms and strategies have to be provided by > implementors. More input and research in this area is necessary. > Knowledge from the negotiation filed of Artificial Intelligence and Game > Theory should be evaluated and/or applied. > > > Summary: > -------- > > It is possible to algorithmically create a CPA from two CPP's. The > completness of the resulting CPA is based on the quality of the CPA > composition tool and the complexity of the input CPP's. > > The CPA negotiation will allow parties (or their negotiation systems) to > negotiate a CPA but more work and experience is necessary to get this > happen. > > > The final thesis of the research is not out yet but the research is > done. Please find more info at [2] > > Kind regards. > > Sacha Schlegel > > [1] > http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/group_public/email/ebxml-cppa-negot/200405/msg00024.html > [2] http://www.schlegel.li/ebXML > > > > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > > The xml-dev list is sponsored by XML.org <http://www.xml.org>, an > > initiative of OASIS <http://www.oasis-open.org> > > > > The list archives are at http://lists.xml.org/archives/xml-dev/ > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe from this list use the subscription > > manager: <http://www.oasis-open.org/mlmanage/index.php> > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > The xml-dev list is sponsored by XML.org <http://www.xml.org>, an > initiative of OASIS <http://www.oasis-open.org> > > The list archives are at http://lists.xml.org/archives/xml-dev/ > > To subscribe or unsubscribe from this list use the subscription > manager: <http://www.oasis-open.org/mlmanage/index.php> > > 
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