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[XML-DEV Mailing List Archive Home] [By Thread] [By Date] [Recent Entries] [Reply To This Message] Re: XML CMM and ISO9000 compliance? - was A standard approach toglueing
 On Tue, 2003-08-26 at 00:10, pop3 wrote: > Thank you for your response, Rick. > > I agree that the record detail structure is closer, but absent normal forms > I just don't see how I can (or other folks can) advocate XML only > technology solutions in an ISO9000 or CMM compliant shop where phrases like > "..will use only proven best practices.." are in the statement of work, the > mission statement, the corporate policies and procedures, or the IT shop > process guidelines. In fact, it seems to me that XML usage is clearly a > process weakness that should be properly identified as such in various CMM > process areas as they are fulfilled. that's why there's conservative people and risk taking people and bits in between. you may have to wait until it's proven best practice - rdbms technology took at least 15 years to be accepted as such, and to a large extent i think that what was delivered was proven best brochures and proven tier one suppliers - neither has a lot to do with proven best technology - but this approach meets all sorts of contractual requirements i guess i'm lucky in having a number of clients who have a different approach and encourage use of sometimes experimental techniques to try and get a business advantage. in 10 years or so the experience of early adopters will provide the proven technology you need for more conservative projects. it's all part of our complex business :) rick > > I see RM as a proven best practice because I have seen and have reproduced > RM proofs. I do not see XML as a proven best practice for anything because > I have not seen and have not been able to develop XML proofs. Perhaps > proofs exists that have not been publicized for XML document markup or > perhaps XML data interchange as a best practice. But it is highly doubtful, > at least to me, that proofs exist or can be developed for XML as a best > practice for data management, data maintenance, data support, data systems, > document management, programming (compiled code or interpreted code) or > logic structures. > > If there are mathematical proofs (set theory, set calculus, etc) , other > rigorous scientific proofs, or even significant business case proofs ( in a > rigorous business management sense), then I would really like to hear them, > and see them presented here, or on a W3C web site or someplace public like > that. > > Without such I cannot endorse or advocate use of XML for anything other > than as a markup language, or maybe data interchange. IE uses such as for > embedding logic in documents, "compiled binaries", "database" or even > "document management". Nor can I support folks in a CMM or ISO9000 shop > utilizing XML to any significant degree until they can show that XML is a > proven best practice, by rigorous scientific proofs. > > Mebbe I am just dense. Mebbe I just don't get it. > > Thanks again. > > At 12:46 AM 8/21/2003 +1000, you wrote: > ><oxymoron>relationally structured data</oxymoron> > > > >of course you can represent records, but as soon as you make a tree out > >of them they're not relational in a database sense > > > >eg > > > ><customer> > > <name>COMPANY X</name> > > <town>SOMEWHERE</town> > > <order> > > <part>ABC123</part> > > <quantity>2</quantity> > > </order> > > <order> > > <part>ABC234</part> > > <quantity>4</quantity> > > </order> > ></customer> > > > >just isn't going to be a relational form as there's no way to determine > >a priori what the normalised records are. there's clearly 2 tables, and > >you know that "customer" has attributes name and town, and "order" has > >attributes part and quantity, but it also needs either name or town to > >complete the relation and it's not obvious which. either or both? > > > >so without some semantics you can't represent relational tables with the > >natural tree structure of xml. > > > >on the other hand > > > ><customer> > > <name>COMPANY X</name> > > <town>SOMEWHERE</town> > ></customer> > > > ><order> > > <name>COMPANY X</name> > > <part>ABC123</part> > > <quantity>2</quantity> > ></order> > ><order> > > <name>COMPANY X</name> > > <part>ABC234</part> > > <quantity>4</quantity> > ></order> > > > >is ok, but then from what i've seen on the list most wouldn't think of > >this single depth as the natural thing to do. > > > >my personal preference (and used day to day) is: > > > ><table name="customer"> > > <record> > > <attribute name="name">COMPANY X</attribute> > > <attribute name="town">SOMEWHERE</attribute> > > </record> > ></table> > ><table name="order"> > > <record> > > <attribute name="name">COMPANY X</attribute> > > <attribute name="part">ABC123</attribute> > > <attribute name="quantity">2</attribute> > > </record> > > <record> > > <attribute name="name">COMPANY X</attribute> > > <attribute name="part">ABC234</attribute> > > <attribute name="quantity">4</attribute> > > </record> > ></table> > > > >and a few minor attribute additions. but again i suspect this is not > >what most use, but then i'm happy to proved wrong. > > > >rick > > > >On Wed, 2003-08-20 at 22:52, Chiusano Joseph wrote: > > > <Quote> > > > Unless someone can show me how XML or an XML only tool set such as > > > TeraText supports and fulfills RM, > > > </Quote> > > > > > > Are you asserting that one cannot represent relationally structured data > > > using XML? If so, can you please elaborate? > > > > > > Kind Regards, > > > Joe Chiusano > > > Booz | Allen | Hamilton > > > > > > > >----------------------------------------------------------------- > >The xml-dev list is sponsored by XML.org <http://www.xml.org>, an > >initiative of OASIS <http://www.oasis-open.org> > > > >The list archives are at http://lists.xml.org/archives/xml-dev/ > > > >To subscribe or unsubscribe from this list use the subscription > >manager: <http://lists.xml.org/ob/adm.pl> 
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