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Re: The illusion of simplicity and low cost in data designand

  • From: Rick Jelliffe <rjelliffe@allette.com.au>
  • To: xml-dev <xml-dev@lists.xml.org>
  • Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2022 11:49:27 +1000

Re:  The illusion of simplicity and low cost in data designand
I don't recall a way to say that some element's content uses a notation, in XML. The scope of NOTATION in XML relates to external non-XML entities. There is no semantic that says, unless I have forgotten, that if an element has an attribute which specifies a notation, it applies to the content of the element (rather than to some link or reference.) 

Even in XML Schemas, the datatype type NOTATION has the caveat "For compatibility (see Terminology (§1.4)NOTATION should be used only on attributes and should only be used in schemas with no target namespace." Which makes it clear that it is a sunset feature limited to replicating what DTDs provided.

In any case, even embedded NOTATIONS were supported, you need to look in a schema or markup declarations so it is not inline. (By embedded I mean the content is in an element, by inline I mean that the the markup to say what the notation is at the same location.)

XML's problem as a syntax is that it does not make enough use of delimiters to signify things inline, locally. This forces unnecessary resort use of extra layers. 

For example consider the attribute Eq "=".  It is a useless thing in a position that could carry lots of meaning. Instead you could use that delimiter position to indicate that an attribute was some kind of ID or anchor (say with "=#") or some kind of IDREF or target (say with "#=") (which I have in my RAN experiment). 

So lets imagine some future XML with some delimiter convention to say whether the attribute applies to the current element orkto its value (say "=" and "=="). That would provide an inline way for a system to know that there is an embedded notation rather than, say, a link.

(Now in fact there is a syntax for inlined embedded notations as element content: you could use a PI instead of the text node. But that prevents XML annotation of portions of the embedded notation, so cripples a key value of markup languages, that you can tag things. And for things like XSLT, a PI is not part of the value of an element, so rather than being a mechanism for labelling data content with a notation, it removes it.)

Cheers
Rick






On Mon, 15 Aug 2022, 2:04 am C. M. Sperberg-McQueen, <cmsmcq@blackmesatech.com> wrote:

Rick Jelliffe <rjelliffe@allette.com.au> writes:

> XML provided the first (headers, doctyoe, namespaces, etc) but kinda
> fails to provide the second (standard inline conventions to introduce
> embedded notations). Which is why it struggles whenever it has to
> contain non-xml data inside: hence see ludicrous approaches like
> requiring an external schema to say some element value is bin64.

Isn't that what NOTATION declarations are designed to do (and in fact
do, when people use them)?

--
C. M. Sperberg-McQueen
Black Mesa Technologies LLC
http://blackmesatech.com


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