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Re: xml:base and fragments

  • From: Rick Jelliffe <rjelliffe@allette.com.au>
  • To: "C. M. Sperberg-McQueen" <cmsmcq@blackmesatech.com>
  • Date: Fri, 5 May 2017 11:02:14 +1000
Re: xml:base and fragments
Play the video
Surely if the purpose is of the RFC is to provide a similar facility to HTML, and it in fact provides a completely different one, it indicates either that an interpretation is wrong or that the wording is buggy? 

You don't want the case where the RFC could have said its purpose was to provide a *dissimilar* facility to HTML with the exactly same level of truth...

Rick

On 5 May 2017 09:08, "C. M. Sperberg-McQueen" <cmsmcq@blackmesatech.com> wrote:

> On May 4, 2017, at 3:57 PM, Ian Graham <ian.graham@utoronto.ca> wrote:
>
> Of course this is so unlike the behavior of the HTML BASE element that someone should go back to the XML Base rec and strip out the entire Abstract:
>
> ("This document proposes a facility, similar to that of HTML BASE, for defining base URIs for parts of XML documents.”)

?

Nothing in the discussion has hinged on any differences between HTML ‘base’
and xml:base; the issue appears to be solely how to interpret section 4.4 of
RFC 3986.  The example we have been using is readily translated into HTML.
Imagine a document at http://example.com/doc.html:

    <html>
      <head>
        <base href="" href="" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://dictionary.example.com/entries/a.html” >
        …
      </head>
      <body>
        <p id=“apple”>Dummy text</p>
        …
        <p>Where do we think <a href="" link</a> goes?
        What resource(s) do we think it identifies?</p>
      </body>
    </html>

The documentation of the ‘base’ element I’ve seen seems to make
clear that the link points to http://dictionary.example.com/entries/a.html#apple
and RFC 3986’s definition of URIs and the meaning of relative references
says that the resource identified is found in the current entity and should
be dereferenced without a new retrieval action.

Perhaps I’m missing something, though; can you explain what
differences you think you see in the meaning of the two constructs?
(Not in their implementations, but in their meaning as given by the
relevant specifications.  Implementations are interesting and useful,
but can be in error, even when they are trying to implement the spec.
And of course Web browsers aren’t always trying to implement
the specs.)



>
>
> On 04-May-17 4:50 PM, C. M. Sperberg-McQueen wrote:
>>> On May 4, 2017, at 2:09 PM, John P. McCaskey <mailbox@johnmccaskey.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> This seems the opposite of Eliot’s initial reaction (and mine and I thought Simon’s but maybe not).
>>>
>>> Just to be sure then, in my example, a file named example.xml.
>>>
>>>     <div
>>> xml:base="http://www.dictionary.com/a.html">
>>>        <p>
>>>         <ref target="#apple">Apple</ref>
>>>       </p>
>>>     </div>
>>>
>>> The new Kay-informed (and already TEI majority) consensus is that @target points to a node in example.xml, not to one inside the file at a.html.
>> I don’t think that’s the majority view in the TEI discussion.  Or possibly I’m not in the majority over there after all.
>>
>> The view that I think is entailed by RFC 3986 is that @target is a relative URI whose absolute form is http://www.dictionary.com/a.html#apple and that 3986 defines this resource as being located in the resource example.xml.
>>
>> I think the natural way to interpret this is that through an otherwise unexplained process, both the URI
>>
>>     http://www.dictionary.com/a.html#apple
>>
>> and the URI
>>
>>     whatever-goes-here/example.xml#apple
>>
>> denote the same thing, which can be retrieved either by scrolling to the appropriate location in example.com (which is already loaded) or retrieving a.html from www.dictionary.com.  RFC 3986 recommends the former; the document() function in XSLT prescribes the latter.
>>
>> I do not see any consensus in the TEI discussion for the proposition that the target attribute in the example does not point to http://www.dictionary.com/a.html#apple
>>
>>
>> ********************************************
>> C. M. Sperberg-McQueen
>> Black Mesa Technologies LLC
>> cmsmcq@blackmesatech.com
>> http://www.blackmesatech.com
>> ********************************************
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________________________________
>>
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>
> --
> Ian Graham // <http://www.iangraham.org>
>
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
>
> XML-DEV is a publicly archived, unmoderated list hosted by OASIS
> to support XML implementation and development. To minimize
> spam in the archives, you must subscribe before posting.
>
> [Un]Subscribe/change address: http://www.oasis-open.org/mlmanage/
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********************************************
C. M. Sperberg-McQueen
Black Mesa Technologies LLC
cmsmcq@blackmesatech.com
http://www.blackmesatech.com
********************************************


_______________________________________________________________________

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