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"And is it not sufficient for the art to provide an experience for the artist alone?" It is for the artist. There is another answer but it doesn't belong on a family list. :) It isn't a title. Art is communication. Is there an art to engineering? Sure. As TEI points out though, it is in making the choices well regardless of the science. len Quoting Pete Cordell <petexmldev@codalogic.com>: > Original Message From: <cbullard@hiwaay.net> > >> The invisible art is not art. It is glue and paint artfully >> applied. The art is in the ability to provide an experience. To >> think otherwise is to understand neither. > > Probably OT, but: > > I thought art was art because an artist said it was art. And we > know someone is an artist because they say they're an artist. > > And is it not sufficient for the art to provide an experience for > the artist alone? > > Either way, I think Michael is quite at liberty to call himself an > artist, and call what he creates is art. His art is seen. > > Pete Cordell > Codalogic Ltd > Interface XML to C++ the easy way using C++ XML > data binding to convert XSD schemas to C++ classes. > Visit http://codalogic.com/lmx/ or http://www.xml2cpp.com > for more info > --- > Original Message From: <cbullard@hiwaay.net> > To: "Tom De Herdt" <tom.deherdt@skynet.be> > Cc: <xml-dev@lists.xml.org> > Sent: Friday, December 30, 2011 1:44 PM > Subject: Re: Engineering versus Science, Anecdote versus > Evidence ... [Was: Designing an experiment to gather evidence on > approaches to designing web services] > > >> The invisible art is not art. It is glue and paint artfully >> applied. The art is in the ability to provide an experience. To >> think otherwise is to understand neither. >> >> len >> >> Quoting Tom De Herdt <tom.deherdt@skynet.be>: >> >>>> Indeed. Like the fine carvings in inaccessible places in a >>>> cathedral, invisible to everyone but the creator and the Creator. >>> >>> Thank you for this fine image. >>> >>> Probably out of context, but I couldn't help but think of words >>> attributed to Heraclitus, the Greek philosopher, 5th century BC: >>> "invisible harmony is superior to the visible" >>> >>> Although both forms of harmony (or elegance) are probably >>> important, in different ways. >>> >>> Tom De Herdt >>> http://www.wulfila.be >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: Michael Kay >>> To: xml-dev@lists.xml.org >>> Sent: Friday, December 30, 2011 9:16 AM >>> Subject: Re: Engineering versus Science, Anecdote versus >>> Evidence ... [Was: Designing an experiment to gather evidence on >>> approaches to designing web services] >>> >>> >>> On 30/12/2011 01:41, David Lee wrote: >>>> IMHO the art of software is often invisible to nearly everyone >>>> but the creator. >>> >>> Indeed. Like the fine carvings in inaccessible places in a cathedral, >>> invisible to everyone but the creator and the Creator. >>> >>> I take great delight in the internal poetry of code: making the source >>> look good on the screen, eloquence in the choice of names, choosing the >>> elegant design over the banal and obvious one. A joy of working for >>> myself is that I don't have to try and rationalize why I do this; a joy >>> of writing open source is that the enjoyment can be shared by others. >>> This is definitely art rather than engineering, but I like to think that >>> the pride in craftsmanship has beneficial side effects on the >>> engineering metrics of the final artefact. >>> >>> But all this is an indulgence; it doesn't pay the wages. It's what a >>> good craftsman does, but not what he is paid to do. The day job is >>> engineering. >>> >>> There is also art, of course, in what is exposed to users: the external >>> visual design. But that's a different question, and one where I have >>> very little competence. >>> >>> Michael Kay >>> Saxonica >>> >>> _______________________________________________________________________ >>> >>> XML-DEV is a publicly archived, unmoderated list hosted by OASIS >>> to support XML implementation and development. To minimize >>> spam in the archives, you must subscribe before posting. >>> >>> [Un]Subscribe/change address: http://www.oasis-open.org/mlmanage/ >>> Or unsubscribe: xml-dev-unsubscribe@lists.xml.org >>> subscribe: xml-dev-subscribe@lists.xml.org >>> List archive: http://lists.xml.org/archives/xml-dev/ >>> List Guidelines: >>> http://www.oasis-open.org/maillists/guidelines.php >>> _______________________________________________________________________ >>> >>> XML-DEV is a publicly archived, unmoderated list hosted by OASIS >>> to support XML implementation and development. To minimize >>> spam in the archives, you must subscribe before posting. >>> >>> [Un]Subscribe/change address: http://www.oasis-open.org/mlmanage/ >>> Or unsubscribe: xml-dev-unsubscribe@lists.xml.org >>> subscribe: xml-dev-subscribe@lists.xml.org >>> List archive: http://lists.xml.org/archives/xml-dev/ >>> List Guidelines: http://www.oasis-open.org/maillists/guidelines.php >>> >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________________________________ >> >> XML-DEV is a publicly archived, unmoderated list hosted by OASIS >> to support XML implementation and development. To minimize >> spam in the archives, you must subscribe before posting. >> >> [Un]Subscribe/change address: http://www.oasis-open.org/mlmanage/ >> Or unsubscribe: xml-dev-unsubscribe@lists.xml.org >> subscribe: xml-dev-subscribe@lists.xml.org >> List archive: http://lists.xml.org/archives/xml-dev/ >> List Guidelines: http://www.oasis-open.org/maillists/guidelines.php >> > > > _______________________________________________________________________ > > XML-DEV is a publicly archived, unmoderated list hosted by OASIS > to support XML implementation and development. To minimize > spam in the archives, you must subscribe before posting. > > [Un]Subscribe/change address: http://www.oasis-open.org/mlmanage/ > Or unsubscribe: xml-dev-unsubscribe@lists.xml.org > subscribe: xml-dev-subscribe@lists.xml.org > List archive: http://lists.xml.org/archives/xml-dev/ > List Guidelines: http://www.oasis-open.org/maillists/guidelines.php > >
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