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Re: nextml

• From: "Pete Cordell" <petexmldev@codalogic.com>
• To: "Amelia A Lewis" <amyzing@talsever.com>,<xml-dev@l...>
• Date: Thu, 9 Dec 2010 16:52:19 -0000

Thanks Amy.

Key among the other good stuff you mention, is:

> I'll also
> reiterate that I'd like to see something that could be algorithmically
> mapped to XML 1.0 + Namespaces without loss; I think that defining that
> sort of specification is achievable in a reasonable time, and the tools
> required could be distributed separately, without requiring a wholesale
> upgrade of existing toolchains

I think that's really important.  Ideally it would be nice to take any XML 
1.0 document, convert it to XML??? and then independently round-trip it back 
to XML 1.0 and have it at least semantically equivalent to the original even 
if it isn't byte-for-byte equivalent.

It would also be nice to be able to do the same with a JSON document

Pete Cordell
Codalogic Ltd
Interface XML to C++ the easy way using C++ XML
data binding to convert XSD schemas to C++ classes.
Visit http://codalogic.com/lmx/ or http://www.xml2cpp.com
for more info
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Amelia A Lewis" <amyzing@talsever.com>
To: <xml-dev@lists.xml.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 3:41 PM
Subject: Re:  nextml


>
> On Thu, 9 Dec 2010 09:31:06 -0000, Pete Cordell wrote:
>> Looking at this, would it be fair to say that your main concern is
>> trying to fix namespaces, possibly not so much in the XML files
>> themselves, but their usage in things like XPath?
>>
>> Other than that, you look fairly content with XML 1.0 as it is.
>
> Mmmmm.  No, I don't think that's *quite* fair.
>
> It's true that I don't care about making XML more like JSON.  I think
> that my focus is on fixing XML for "authors" (where "author" is broadly
> construed, and may include folks writing programs to consume or
> manipulate XML, not just folks creating XML from scratch).  To my mind,
> XML 1.0 has adequate expressiveness, but some horrible mistakes that
> make it far too difficult to produce and consume.
>
> I do think that fixing the namespace mess is imperative.  I'll also
> reiterate that I'd like to see something that could be algorithmically
> mapped to XML 1.0 + Namespaces without loss; I think that defining that
> sort of specification is achievable in a reasonable time, and the tools
> required could be distributed separately, without requiring a wholesale
> upgrade of existing toolchains--but it's more interesting, to me, than
> a specification constrained to be no more than best practices for 1.0.
>
> I've also reconsidered some things, based on responses.  It appears
> that the general consensus of experts in i18n is that UTF-8 and -16 are
> sufficient--would that mean refusing to accept other encodings
> altogether?  If a *single* encoding were required, then problems with
> inclusion/embedding might go away.
>
> Also, DTD ... okay, removing them makes sense.  Remove them, and the
> problem of a doctype decl appearing as a result of embedding a document
> in another goes away (encoding issues may remain).  Also disappearing:
> notations, parameter entities--that's a lot of complexity gone like
> *snap*.  Unfortunately, general parsed entities also disappear--that's
> not so good, from my perspective (and Liam nailed the reason for it:
> XInclude can't define something that is permitted to appear in an
> attribute value; entity definitions can).  Predefining a larger group
> may help, but doesn't solve things.  Also, with no internal subset,
> security APIs may be forced to support xml:id rather than relying on
> the internal subset to identify attributes of type ID.
>
> Amy!
> -- 
> Amelia A. Lewis                    amyzing {at} talsever.com
> Razors pain you; Rivers are damp;
> Acids stain you; And drugs cause cramp.
> Guns aren't lawful; Nooses give;
> Gas smells awful; You might as well live.
>                -- Dorothy Parker, "Resume"
>
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• Follow-Ups:
  • Re: nextml
    • From: Amelia A Lewis <amyzing@talsever.com>

• References:
  • nextml
    • From: Amelia A Lewis <amyzing@talsever.com>
  • Re: nextml
    • From: "Pete Cordell" <petexmldev@codalogic.com>
  • Re: nextml
    • From: Amelia A Lewis <amyzing@talsever.com>