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[XML-DEV Mailing List Archive Home] [By Thread] [By Date] [Recent Entries] [Reply To This Message] RE: 10th anniversary of the annoucement of XML ..need help
 On Jun 6, 2006, at 9:06 AM, Bullard, Claude L ((Len)) wrote: >> And in IDEAS/IADS (Unisys/USAMICOM) that supported dtd-less stylesheet >> based coding. >I forgot about IADS, but yet, that too. FWIW. EBT's DynaText did not require DTD's (but could take advantage of them), >and I think SoftQuad could be used without them too. In all cases, the subset was similar to XML, and in (I believe) all > cases, the stylesheets were more powerful than CSS in that they could also define hypermedia behaviour. Yes. AE could turn validation on and off for editing. I had minimal exposure to Dynatext (It was a competitor. :-)), but it was well liked in CALS circles. A bit pricey as I recall but everything was then. The Army had IADS developed so they could maintain it given the high cost of the content and the long lifecycles. It is still used so weirdly enough, is the survivor because it lived in an edge ecotone. True statement about the stylesheets too. I got the Unisys folks to quit using PI s for hyperlinks, but only with persuasive threats because logically, they were the right choice. We showed that doing HTML was trivial, but Unisys reacted stupidly. One can only look back with a mixture of awe and dread. Having seen that same behavior at GE, Unisys, Lockheed Martin and Intergraph, I realize now that there is a lot of truth to the phrase "the other guy innovates". Some companies don't do that well, although I note that those that do it worst tend to be RFP-driven, so they are always surfing behind the wave. >> IDEAS was the commercial version of IADS with DTD batch support >> as-needed. IADS was offered free to the world and provided an example >> for Yuri and Dr. Goldfarb that the techniques for markup that would >> become XML did work in hypermedia. >Don't forget Steve DeRose and DynaText, which I would personally argue was superior to SoftQuad. I concur. DeRose was so far ahead of most of us that it was hard to follow him. That is the other danger: anything that is completely new is also unrecognizable. OTOH, he is business-smart and Dynatext did well. >> XML is outcome of many separate efforts to make SGML suitable for >> hypert >Yep, and led by people wanting more powerful capabilities than those offered by HTML etc. Even now many of the core >benefits that were desired are missing in the WWW. They had to. They were already selling the systems, knew the true history of hypermedia back to Englebart, and weren't so caught up in the web fever. There was the resignation of having to repeat history to stay in business. >The fact is that anyone with a reasonable amount of SGML experience ended up using a core subset similar to XML. > Ultimately there was little new in XML, because it was based on something with a fairly long history. Some things, like > I18N and explicit DTD-less support were good additions. True statement. Most of the flames I remember were matters of degree. There was the camp that wanted schemas to die altogether (any schema of any kind) and those that had uses for them. Then there was the linking designs. The web guys won that one with running code and a more practical approach. OTOH, most of the pre-web link designs still live on in various projects. There is a better understanding of the unnecessary dichotomy of links and functions now. What the hypermedia community got from the web that it didn't really spend much time on before was the necessity of stateless systems to achieve scale. What the web designers have yet to fully grasp is the impact of real-time models on the state of statelessness. As the web 2.0 saga pushes on, they will finally confront the bigger challenge of models where scalar motion/time dominates the design. len 
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