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[XML-DEV Mailing List Archive Home] [By Thread] [By Date] [Recent Entries] [Reply To This Message] Re: Web Services/SOA (was RE: XML 2004 weblog items?
 Michael, I almost laughed out aload reading your message.... > XML removes the necessity of defining YACC grammars > and writing parsers for every random data > format need. only funny because I remember YACC from way back. No doubt it still exists. I remember that was one heck of a frustrating program. and yet... some of these new tools have exactly the same frustration level in xml even now. I don't know why I think that, but it seems that way to me. Especially in Linux. You have some interesting points to make in any case. David Quoting Michael Champion <michaelc.champion@g...>: > On Tue, 30 Nov 2004 13:57:24 -0600, Bullard, Claude L (Len) > <len.bullard@i...> wrote: > > > > > Every few years, we toss out the old terms and attempt > > to reapply the technologies that didn't quite make it > > in the last cycle. > > That's The Way It's Supposed To Be, I think. Code gets refactored -- > toss out the stuff that really didn't work, try the technologies that > didn't quite make it again after a couple of iterations of Moore's > Law. Political ideas get co-opted (Barry Goldwater's speeches weren't > much different than Kerry's flag-waving one when he accepted the > nomination, Lyndon Johnson sounds like a Bush Republican in > retrospect). > > You HAVE to change the names or people will expect backwards > compatibility -- bad ideas have to die, and sometimes good names are > part of the collateral damage. > > Peter Hunsberger wrote: > > > Sure, some hand waving as they invoke the magic term "SOA" > > and next thing you know your boss expects transparent data > > exchange with 500 new business partners to be up and running in a month... > > There's no dispute that the the hype surrounding web services / SOA > has done a disservice. I think it's just part of our collective job > description to learn to separate out the hype from the reality and to > try to persuade those around us of what the reality is. It takes > awhile to get enough credibility to tell the Pointy-Haired Boss that > the hypemeisters are full of it and NOBODY is getting real-world > transparent data exchange with SOA, WS-* ... or REST and the Semantic > Web for that matter. Data exchange requires hard work, and at best > technology automates the grunt work, e.g. as XML removes the necessity > of defining YACC grammars and writing parsers for every random data > format need. Maybe semantic technologies will automate the process of > building or configuring transformers between diverse data formats, but > they will create a new type of grunt work - building ontologies that > define the mappings that automated transformation engines can exploit. > > What's important is to keep an eye on the central ideas that have > persisted across Structured Programming, Object Orientation, > Distributed Objects, and now Service Orientation. Loose coupling and > data hiding are certainly two of these central ideas. Some ideas > sound good but don't work out, e.g. "location transparency" in the > distributed object world. Some ideas that seem trivial have the > immense advantage of being massively scalable (e.g. HTTP), and some > ideas that probably will never scale could turn out to be just the > ticket for limited domains (e.g. the semantic web). The thing we can > do is to exploit the ideas that actually work, irrespective of whether > they are fashionable or not; and to ignore those that don't work, > irrespective of whether they are tangled up in standards or products > with others that do work. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > The xml-dev list is sponsored by XML.org <http://www.xml.org>, an > initiative of OASIS <http://www.oasis-open.org> > > The list archives are at http://lists.xml.org/archives/xml-dev/ > > To subscribe or unsubscribe from this list use the subscription > manager: <http://www.oasis-open.org/mlmanage/index.php> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. 
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