[XML-DEV Mailing List Archive Home] [By Thread] [By Date] [Recent Entries] [Reply To This Message] RE: You call that a standard?
I agree with a lot of that and I won't rehash the history. I saw what I saw, heard what I was heard, and stand by my statements. Lots of people will disagree, I know. I don't think Berners-Lee quite knew what would come of consortia-based design and some of that has been good, but some of that is not because it is a model without regulation other than that applied by dint of it being a corporation. Even though good process has emerged by dint of experience, the basic model of consortia standards remains one that disenfranchises. It can be one that manages and protects IP for the good of the commons. The W3C has evolved into that due to the people leading it having a strong community commitment, but we can't expect that in every case. Because anyone can label anything anyway they like, that leaves it to the customer to determine meaning. So here we are, and yeah, let's do the soul searching, but moreover, let's increase the awareness of the benefits of real standards over faux standards, let's separate specs that are R&D from products ready for prime time (Tim's recent blog on the web services standards is a good move in that direction), and let's demand more from these groups such as conformance tests with test marks. We may want to explore what conformance and/or certification tests are so we can make those demands reasonable but effective. Otherwise, the standards, as Bob said and others said before him, only benefit the guys with deep enough pockets to create them. Worse, the IP wars will just get more expensive because these are businessmen who have found a way to put money in the quarterlies with only a lawsuit. They are doing their jobs; we should do ours too. len From: Michael Champion [mailto:mc@x...] On Apr 29, 2004, at 9:39 AM, Bullard, Claude L (Len) wrote: > You like the credit for being the > "co-inventor of XML" but don't accept any role in the damage done by > the > gutting of ISO and the norms of standardization that stood > in your way. I wasn't around back then, but AFAIK, ISO committed seppuku as far as "SGML for the Web" is concerned; Tim (Bray and/or Berners-Lee) didn't gut it. :-) > "As the twig is bent...", Tim. One has to > take the long view or short term gains in technical > specification turn into big losses in cultural cooperation. > Internet time is bullsh*t. It seems to me that one has to take the long AND the short view. Joint R&D is a Good Thing; Recommendations about what appears to actually work and would work better if the relatively small differences were smoothed out are a Good Thing; and real honest International Standards are a Good Thing, but they should not be promulgated until the underlying specs have matured. So in my very humble opinion: -- IBEASoft should be more honest that what they are doing with the WS-* specs are joint R&D projects, and should correct journalists who call them "standards" or "recommendations" (except in the sense that their marketing departments "recommend" the products built around them). -- W3C and OASIS should likewise avoid calling what they do 'standards' -- they are consortium recommendations, hopefully based on an analysis of best practice and applied theory. (The Design by Committee stuff like WXS or XQuery is pretty much equivalent to the joint R&D projects as far as I'm concerned, and should have some designation other than Recommendation until best practice is clear). -- The "real" standards organizations such as ISO, ITU, and CEFACT should focus on sweeping up after the parade, and not pursuing pet projects of key participants or pursuing essentially political goals . In other words, there is plenty of credit and blame to go around for the current state of affairs, there's been a lot of innovation but no organization or consortium has done all that great a job of following their own guidelines, and plenty of soul searching by a lot of people (not just stupid journalists) is needed to improve it. ----------------------------------------------------------------- The xml-dev list is sponsored by XML.org <http://www.xml.org>, an initiative of OASIS <http://www.oasis-open.org> The list archives are at http://lists.xml.org/archives/xml-dev/ To subscribe or unsubscribe from this list use the subscription manager: <http://www.oasis-open.org/mlmanage/index.php>
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