[XML-DEV Mailing List Archive Home] [By Thread] [By Date] [Recent Entries] [Reply To This Message] RE: Re: Why REST was Re: URIs are simply names
List members may be interested in Sandro Hawke's site that surveys the different opinions, listing pros and cons of various identification techniques: http://www.w3.org/2001/03/identification-problem/ > -----Original Message----- > From: Simon St.Laurent [mailto:simonstl@s...] > Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2002 6:40 PM > To: xml-dev@l... > Subject: Re: Re: Why REST was Re: URIs are simply > names > > On Sat, 2002-02-16 at 20:46, Jonathan Borden wrote: > > The core issue is whether we are able to describe anything but > "documents" > > on the Web. One might take the position that nothing but documents > exists on > > the Web. But it is the literal incantation of a document which is > defined as > > the _entity_ (the series of bits) > > I don't think the incantation of bits is sufficient cause to believe > that an abstraction called a resource lurks behind the bits. Nor do I > find that abstraction particularly helpful when it interferes (as it > regularly does) with expectations about said bits. > > > As I see it, every document is _about_ something. It is that something > which > > is the _resource_. > > So resources are kind of like Hegel's Spirit? Maybe Frank Willison was > dangerously right at the end of: > http://xml.oreilly.com/news/xmldevcon_0201.html > > Or is that more like Plato's Forms? I'd really like something more > tangible than merely "a resource is the object of an identifier," which > is as far as URI folks ever seem to get. Perhaps uselessness is > beautiful? > > > Needless layers of abstraction are just a waste of time. On the other > hand > > it is essential to distinguish between a description of something and > the > > thing that is described. For example: XML Namespaces. The RDDL document > > isn't the namespace, it describes the namespace. Or your homepage, it > may > > describe you --if you say so-- but it isn't you --no matter what you > say--. > > I don't claim my homepage is myself. I do, however, claim that > http://simonstl.com/articles/index.html has meaning well beyond > identification, and the reason that odd string of characters works has > infinitely more to do with its role as a locator than as an identifier. > > The reason RDDL works is that people and machines understand URLs, and > can get to the bits. The URI part is, as I said before, hocus-pocus. > I'll take incantations of bits over incantations abstractly identifying > abstract resources. > > The other problem, of course, is that isn't clear how these abstractions > add up. How do I describe http://simonstl.com/ns/fragments/ when it's > both a document and a namespace? I've chosen to take advantage of the > URL-nature of the namespace to put a RDDL document there, but that was > just me being nice, and now I want to identify the page separately from > the namespace in some kind of processing. # doesn't seem to answer > this. > > Identification is a tough problem, and useful in some but not all > contexts. I find it hard to believe that anyone but architects wants to > see architecture built on identification rather than something slightly > more tangible - say, location, even an abstract location in a computer. > That's served the Web quite well for a decade. > > -- > Simon St.Laurent > Ring around the content, a pocket full of brackets > Errors, errors, all fall down! > http://simonstl.com > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > The xml-dev list is sponsored by XML.org <http://www.xml.org>, an > initiative of OASIS <http://www.oasis-open.org> > > The list archives are at http://lists.xml.org/archives/xml-dev/ > > To subscribe or unsubscribe from this list use the subscription > manager: <http://lists.xml.org/ob/adm.pl>
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