[XML-DEV Mailing List Archive Home] [By Thread] [By Date] [Recent Entries] [Reply To This Message]

Re: Comercial XML editor recommendations

  • From: Peter@u... (Peter Murray-Rust)
  • To: xml-dev@i...
  • Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 09:05:19 GMT

comercial editing
In message <199705290352.UAA08842@s...> Michael Leventhal writes:
> Peter Murray-Rust wrote:
> I'd like to, but I am very concerned about misusing this list for commercial 
> purposes, despite the invitation.  I think I can mention that Grif did demo
> _two_ XML editors at SGML '97 Europe and WWW6.

I appreciate this restraint, thanks - but would like to suggest that we can
relax it a bit *at this stage in XML development*.  My reasoning is as 
follows.  [BTW there is absolutely no *pressure* for any m'facturer to say 
anything here in advance of public release - and no inferences should be
drawn from any apparent silences.  So if there is no response - for
good commercial reasons - fine.  I take it as axiomatic that all major
current SGML m'facturers are *interested* in XML, so silence carries little
information :-)].

Implementations tend to define de facto procedures.  For example when C++ came
out it was an almighty mess.  There were several different compilers, all from
different manufacturers and working to different levels and by different 
mechanisms.  Some used a preprocessor, some were native, some had templates
and all on a varying timescale.  You very soon got not only m'facturer
lockin, but version lockin :-(

The XML-spec is not yet frozen, but people are (rightly IMO) creating
tools in advance of the final spec.  Let's say those tools suddenly
emerged on July 2 (spec is announced July 1. right?) and they take
fundamentally different approaches to the language, that *may* have some 
bearing on language revisions.  We are concerned that XML does not have
multiple conformance levels, and a comparison of editor/parser features may 
help to approach that problem.

Many *document* developers may be wishing to create trial XML documents
or prototype legacy conversion.  It would be reasonable for them to
ask where they could find a (prototype) editor to start with.  They might
then discover that there were significant problems/advantages in XML.

[Some of these problems may also be dealt with if people compile XML
resource pages.]

> I also think I can pursue Peter's point about there being two types
> of editors, A and B above, from a technological/philosphical/cultural 
> perspective.  Grif also has an A and B which are not exactly what Peter 
> describes but sort of close.  The origin was not intended to delineate a 
> philosophical distinction although the currents of history may have in fact 
> made it so.

My motivation here is that I see editing as one of the key steps to getting
XML universally accepted.  Yes, the current text-oriented SGML tools will
be modified/rewritten to give XML editors, but they won't address the
applications that no-one has thought of.  What does a CML editor want?

> Grif's XML editor A is a knock-off from its traditional SGML with
> "WYSIWYG to the max" product.  It requires a DTD, enforces structure,
> and controls the presentation through a high-end style sheet mechanism.  
> XML editor B is a knock-off of Grif's HTML editor, Symposia, and does 
> not enforce structure, allows you to add tags at will, is CSS-based
> and does the usual HTML-related stuff like allow you to create
> (XML) links and image maps, add math, etc.

This is very exciting news.  I would be interested to know more.

> I initially found the idea of having two XML editors to be possibly 
> schizophrenic so I am intrigued by Peter being already in possession of
> a two editor world-view, essentially the SGML and the HTML
> approaches, DTD-required vs well-formed.  I guess I always assumed
> that you'd combine the two, change modes at the flick of a switch,
> but somehow encourage more rather than less structure by always
> having the capability of showing the user his or her structural
> failings.  Of course, the code bases have, by now, divurged greatly
> though companies like Grif certainly leveraged their SGML experience
> in entering the HTML fray.  But I thought the perspectives were coalescing.  
> Is this two editor approach a transitional stage on the way to a more 
> glorious evolutionary stage or have we, in fact, distinguished different
> types of tasks to which different types of tools have been precisely tailored
> to exact nature of the task?

What I want for an editor for the chemical community is, I think, 
generalisable to may other applications.

(a) no discipline-specific tools, but good hooks to link them in
(b) full support for XML-LINK
(c) tree-based editing
(d) attribute editing , controlled by DTD
(e) import of legacy data and conversion on the fly by user-written add-ons
(f) support for whatever solutions XML comes up with for XML-TYPE, XML-LINK
(g) WYSIWYG HTML editing with XML-LINKing to imported subdocuments.
(h) Cunning chemical editing that I think of and develop.

*I* can do the *chemical* bit.  I'd prefer to do it once and not one for A's
tool, one for B's tool, etc.  My current preference for several reasons 
would be Java beans - e.g. there will be a HTML bean, Word bean, Molecule
bean, etc.

I have always felt that posters to comp.text.sgml have been very responsible
in the use of commercial postings.  I think that a listing of current
capabilities of editors would be valuable to readers of this list.  
However if people don't general share this view, please post - either to the
list or me personally - and I will then suggest revised etiquette.


Peter Murray-Rust, domestic net connection
Virtual School of Molecular Sciences

xml-dev: A list for W3C XML Developers
Archived as: http://www.lists.ic.ac.uk/hypermail/xml-dev/
To unsubscribe, send to majordomo@i... the following message;
unsubscribe xml-dev
List coordinator, Henry Rzepa (rzepa@i...)


Purchasing Stylus Studio from our online shop is Easy, Secure and Value Priced!

Buy Stylus Studio Now

Download The World's Best XML IDE!

Accelerate XML development with our award-winning XML IDE - Download a free trial today!

Don't miss another message! Subscribe to this list today.
First Name
Last Name
Subscribe in XML format
RSS 2.0
Atom 0.3

Stylus Studio has published XML-DEV in RSS and ATOM formats, enabling users to easily subcribe to the list from their preferred news reader application.

Stylus Studio Sponsored Links are added links designed to provide related and additional information to the visitors of this website. they were not included by the author in the initial post. To view the content without the Sponsor Links please click here.

Site Map | Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Trademarks
Free Stylus Studio XML Training:
W3C Member
Stylus Studio® and DataDirect XQuery ™are products from DataDirect Technologies, is a registered trademark of Progress Software Corporation, in the U.S. and other countries. © 2004-2013 All Rights Reserved.