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Re: XMLisms and HTML parsing and modes (was: Re: XML5)

  • From: Robin Cover <robin@oasis-open.org>
  • To: Liam R E Quin <liam@w3.org>
  • Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2010 20:40:04 -0500 (EST)

Re:  XMLisms and HTML parsing and modes (was: Re: XML5)
On Thu, 16 Dec 2010, Liam R E Quin wrote:

> On Thu, 2010-12-16 at 15:38 -0800, Henri Sivonen wrote:
>> On Dec 16, 2010, at 14:13, Liam R E Quin wrote:
>>
>>> This <syntax /> came from SGML and was already legal in HTML from a
>>> formal standards perspective.
>>
>> My understanding is that Annex K was added to SGML in late 1997 for
>> the specific purpose of making XML 1.0 a subset of SGML. This was
>> after HTML had been deployed.
>
> Yes. But the net syntax was already in SGML:1986.

And for possible explanations of the SGML commmitments, and
tortured process of determining what to do in the profiling
of SGML for XML, one can consult this record of arcana:

The SGML FAQ Book
http://xml.coverpages.org/deroseFAQ-TOC.html

Amazon thinks the book is still in print.

And yes, I am enjoying this discussion, from many points of
view.

- Robin

Robin Cover
OASIS, Director of Information Services
Editor, Cover Pages and XML Daily Newslink
Email: robin@oasis-open.org
Staff bio: http://www.oasis-open.org/who/staff.php#cover
Cover Pages: http://xml.coverpages.org/
Newsletter: http://xml.coverpages.org/newsletterArchive.html
Tel: +1 972-296-1783


>
>> Also, I believe no IETF or W3C HTML spec that pretends HTML to be an
>> application of SGML actually enables the NET-enabled start tags.
>>
>> Am I mistaken?
>
> I'm not sure about "pretends to be HTML". SGML allows any *document
> instance* to enable them.
>
> However,
> http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc1866.txt
> has
>    SHORTTAG YES
> which results in enabling the NET feature.
>
> So it was in HTML at least as far back as 1995.
>
> It was probably done so that attribute values didn't need to
> be quoted as long as they parsed as SGML tokens, but had the
> consequence of enabling a whole bunch of other <i/features/ :)
>
> The SGML spec, and the SGML declaration, are both extraordinarily
> cryptic in this area.  The SGML Handbook does help, but annotated
> mud is still mud.
>
> We're a bit far afield really, except that it's not correct to
> blame XML for introducing a syntax that was arguably already a
> part of HTML (and accepted by at least some tools).
>
> Liam
>
> -- 
> Liam Quin - XML Activity Lead, W3C, http://www.w3.org/People/Quin/
> Pictures from old books: http://fromoldbooks.org/
> Ankh: irc.sorcery.net irc.gnome.org www.advogato.org
>
>
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