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[XML-DEV Mailing List Archive Home] [By Thread] [By Date] [Recent Entries] [Reply To This Message] Re: Re: XML and the Relational Model
 I mean database in the academic sense, as defined by Knuth and by Codd, as a set of data with specific characteristics not the least of which is n-tuples. I think most people here mean a data group when they use the word database. Regards, Larry Bradshaw At 11:16 AM 8/26/2003 -0400, Jonathan Robie wrote: >At 02:18 PM 8/25/2003, lbradshaw@d... wrote: > >>So when someone says to me that an XML doc is, also, a database, and is >>better at being a database than Oracle (or your favorite vendor) it gives >>me heartburn. Someone actually said that to me, quite emphatically, recently. > >Depends on what you mean by a database. If you mark up a Shakespeare >document, you can do rather useful queries on it. A relational database is >a bad way to represent a Shakespeare play. > >>When I responded that my concern was that the embedded logic in the XML >>doc file did not support normal forms, or relations, their response was >>"what do you mean.... relations?" > >I am not sure what you mean by embedded logic. You can have a database >without tables. Relational databases do not "support" normal forms, >database designers use normal forms to create database designs. > >>For sure, people are trying to do terabyte systems that integrate >>normalized data and legacy document data stores (such as the journal >>"Nature"), primarily in XML, that is to say by converting out of an RDBMS >>like Oracle and into pure XML docs without a dbms back end. This is the >>source of my concern. They need some guidance, and will certainly receive >>it, in one form (gentle comments in forums like this one) or another >>(when their systems fail in production, or worse, never get past failed >>prototype constructs). >> >>Still, I remain open minded, and if someone can offer proofs that support: >>- XML as a best practice (in any regard) > >Look at web messages, delivery of information to web sites, some kinds of >technical documentation. > >>- XML as supporting RM > >It doesn't. > >>- XML as a programming language (embedded logic, etc) > >It isn't. But if you are interested in XML-centric programming languages, >I suggest you check out XQuery. > >>- XML as ISO 9000 compliant >>- XML as CMM complaint > >What do either of these have to do with the underlying database model? > >Jonathan > >----------------------------------------------------------------- >The xml-dev list is sponsored by XML.org <http://www.xml.org>, an >initiative of OASIS <http://www.oasis-open.org> > >The list archives are at http://lists.xml.org/archives/xml-dev/ > >To subscribe or unsubscribe from this list use the subscription >manager: <http://lists.xml.org/ob/adm.pl> 
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