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Re: Re: [XSL] Implicit Predicate Casting

Subject: Re: Re: [XSL] Implicit Predicate Casting
From: "G. Ken Holman" <gkholman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 08:09:43 -0400
Re:  Re: [XSL] Implicit Predicate Casting
At 2007-10-14 12:56 +0200, Alain wrote:
Because when the predicate is not of type "number", then the argument is cast to type "boolean". A non-empty string is cast to boolean true, so all members are exposed. A result tree fragment or temporary tree always casts to boolean true, so all members are exposed.

Only when the predicate is of type "number" is the "position()=" implied

So that would fall under XPath "shortcut" expressions and tricks!
Specification could be:
If type of predicate is number
| then imply position() = that number (which is a test and thus gives a true/false result)
| else cast expression to boolean

Yes, the implied comparison operator makes the expression result a boolean.


So in my example, the value being the same for every node (nothing depends on the node in
the expression), is true for every node and selects everything!

Yes.


I find it a very "dangerous" shortcut if you do [something] relying on the type of 'something'

There are a few other examples in XPath.


to imply position()= if it is what you meant.
For maintenance, you have to track back the type of 'something' to understand the meaning
of the predicate which can then be very different.
Then, I would consider good practice, if what you want is a predicate [position()=something]
to make it explicit, unless you are pretty sure 'something' is really a number, such as in the
expression: [2], where 2 is obviously a number!..

Yes.


And even for that... if you are a bit tired and wrote ['2'], being confused to where you have
to quote things or not... you will fall down to boolean-casting-and-selecting-everything.

The boolean casting happens on the end result of the expression ... other casting is going on within the expression.


So, if I ever run a class as you seem to do Ken,

(Note I license my training material to other teachers around the world http://www.CraneSoftwrights.com/training/licensed.htm if you were interested in doing so yourself)


I will advise to *always* make position()
explicit even for [position()=2], which would be good for sleepy students that wrote
[position()='2']

Yes that would work because of the casting that goes on *in* the expression, not with the result of the expression: when the comparison operator is between dissimilar data types (in this example a number and a string), the string is converted to a number before the comparison.


Because <xsl:value-of/> acts on only the first of the addressed nodes in document order. All three are being addressed, but only the first is being returned.

Ok! So that falls under differences between XSLT1.0 and 2.0

Yes


The XSL2.0 norm is much more accurate when such errors happens. It even gives an
error number which is very nice when you want to understand what's wrong, thanks to
the W3C guys that wrote this norm!

It is *very* helpful.


Chapter 17 of XSL1.0 (Conformance) says :
A conforming XSLT processor must signal any errors except for those that this document
specifically allows an XSLT processor not to signal. A conforming XSLT processor may
but need not recover from any errors that it signals.


So Firefox is wrong reporting nothing,

I agree. Not reporting reportable problems is not helpful. Developers using software that "helps" them by forgiving problems will then trip over their users problems after deployment.


Human brain is complicated... I got it right for not(not(a=b) and not(a!=b)) meaning both sequence a and b are not empty,

Sorry ... you lost me there. Are you referring to a comparison returning false if either operand is the empty sequence? This catches students using "a!=b" and getting false (and thinking that means a and b are equal which they are not because of an empty operand) instead of "not(a=b)" which when false means that they are in fact equal.


but couldn't get a grip on that XPath implied thing,
which is a very basic thing !

The XPath norm is much more difficult to read, because it is constructed as a grammatical tree.

Instructors should remember the formal specifications are written for implementers more so than for users, thus making an excellent market for books and training material.


So, you've got to drill down very deeply to understand what's really happening.

As is so often the case for specifications. Training material can present the concepts differently to help students understand.


. . . . . . . . . . . . . Ken

--
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