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Re: Complex Systems [was: Ontologies vs Schemas vs Transformat


pl vs xml

My understanding is that complex systems have underlying deterministic
dynamics, just like a chaotic system, but that only certain aspects of a
complex system can be predicted in a reliable way (also just like chaotic
systems). Also, there are parameters that, when changed only slightly, may
make a complex system's properties change dramatically, so that
predictability is difficult to impossible.

For example, some have argued that the power grid is a complex system -
but small changes to it (as recently observed) led to highly unpredictable
consequences.

Ian

On Fri, 19 Sep 2003, Roger L. Costello wrote:

> Hi Joe,
> 
> No, I really did mean to say non-deterministic.  (My understanding is) that
> complex systems may appear non-deterministic, but there are underlying
> patterns that once recognized will allow you to predict the behavior.  Until
> you understand those underlying patterns it appears non-deterministic.
> /Roger
> 
> Chiusano Joseph wrote:
> 
> > <Quote>
> > A complex system is one that has lots of parts, which interact,
> > and the system behaves in a seemingly non-deterministic fashion
> > </Quote>
> >
> > Roger, I think you meant to say seemingly *deterministic* fashion...
> >
> > Kind Regards,
> > Joe Chiusano
> > Booz | Allen | Hamilton
> >
> > "Roger L. Costello" wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Mike,
> > >
> > > Mike Champion wrote:
> > >
> > > > But how about the messy real world most of us must
> > > > operate in, where there is an intent to deceive
> > > > (spammers, virus writers, software companies with
> > > > patents on common sense, politicians starting wars [or
> > > > questioning the definition of "is"], ad nauseum)? How
> > > > about in pop culture contexts where meanings of words
> > > > are changed literally for the fun of it?
> > >
> > > You make excellent points.  I will offer two comments:
> > >
> > > 1. In the RDF Primer are several examples of companies that are
> > > currently using RDFS ontologies.  Shelley Power's book on RDF also has
> > > examples.
> > >
> > > 2. Recently I have been doing some reading on "complex systems".  This
> > > is a new, highly interdisciplinary science that has its roots in Chaos
> > > Theory.  A complex system is one that has lots of parts, which interact,
> > > and the system behaves in a seemingly non-deterministic fashion.  A
> > > example of a complex system is the stock market - there are many parts,
> > > and one part (I think they call it an affector) can impact remote
> > > parts.  The complex systems people distinguish between a complex system
> > > and a complicated system.  An automobile engine is an example of a
> > > complicated system - if you understand all its parts then you can
> > > predict exactly how it will behave.  This is not a complex system.  A
> > > colleague defined a complex system as "a system that has dynamic
> > > complicatedness".
> > >
> > > As I read your words it occurred to me that what you are really talking
> > > about is a complex system.  As I learn more about complex systems, I
> > > intend to see how their techniques can be used to solve the issues that
> > > you raise.  This is exciting!  It might be fun to create a list to
> > > discuss semantics and data interoperability as a complex system?  I am
> > > just starting to learn about complex systems.  Does anyone have a lot of
> > > experience with it?   /Roger
> > >
> > > P.S. The Santa Fe Institute does work on complex systems.  Also, as does
> > > the New England Complex Systems Institute (http://www.necsi.org)
> > >
> > > P.S. A nice pop-science book on complex systems is called Complexity by
> > > Waldrup
> > >
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> 
> 
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