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Re: Complex Systems [was: Ontologies vs Schemas vs Transformat

• To: xml-dev@l...
• Subject: Re: Complex Systems [was: Ontologies vs Schemas vs Transformations]
• From: "Roger L. Costello" <costello@m...>
• Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 15:43:21 -0400
• Organization: The MITRE Corporation
• References: <20030919183941.32460.qmail@w...> <3F6B594B.353FC4E1@m...> <3F6B5AAB.F185290B@b...>

Hi Joe,

No, I really did mean to say non-deterministic.  (My understanding is) that
complex systems may appear non-deterministic, but there are underlying
patterns that once recognized will allow you to predict the behavior.  Until
you understand those underlying patterns it appears non-deterministic.
/Roger

Chiusano Joseph wrote:

> <Quote>
> A complex system is one that has lots of parts, which interact,
> and the system behaves in a seemingly non-deterministic fashion
> </Quote>
>
> Roger, I think you meant to say seemingly *deterministic* fashion...
>
> Kind Regards,
> Joe Chiusano
> Booz | Allen | Hamilton
>
> "Roger L. Costello" wrote:
> >
> > Hi Mike,
> >
> > Mike Champion wrote:
> >
> > > But how about the messy real world most of us must
> > > operate in, where there is an intent to deceive
> > > (spammers, virus writers, software companies with
> > > patents on common sense, politicians starting wars [or
> > > questioning the definition of "is"], ad nauseum)? How
> > > about in pop culture contexts where meanings of words
> > > are changed literally for the fun of it?
> >
> > You make excellent points.  I will offer two comments:
> >
> > 1. In the RDF Primer are several examples of companies that are
> > currently using RDFS ontologies.  Shelley Power's book on RDF also has
> > examples.
> >
> > 2. Recently I have been doing some reading on "complex systems".  This
> > is a new, highly interdisciplinary science that has its roots in Chaos
> > Theory.  A complex system is one that has lots of parts, which interact,
> > and the system behaves in a seemingly non-deterministic fashion.  A
> > example of a complex system is the stock market - there are many parts,
> > and one part (I think they call it an affector) can impact remote
> > parts.  The complex systems people distinguish between a complex system
> > and a complicated system.  An automobile engine is an example of a
> > complicated system - if you understand all its parts then you can
> > predict exactly how it will behave.  This is not a complex system.  A
> > colleague defined a complex system as "a system that has dynamic
> > complicatedness".
> >
> > As I read your words it occurred to me that what you are really talking
> > about is a complex system.  As I learn more about complex systems, I
> > intend to see how their techniques can be used to solve the issues that
> > you raise.  This is exciting!  It might be fun to create a list to
> > discuss semantics and data interoperability as a complex system?  I am
> > just starting to learn about complex systems.  Does anyone have a lot of
> > experience with it?   /Roger
> >
> > P.S. The Santa Fe Institute does work on complex systems.  Also, as does
> > the New England Complex Systems Institute (http://www.necsi.org)
> >
> > P.S. A nice pop-science book on complex systems is called Complexity by
> > Waldrup
> >
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• Follow-Ups:
  • Re: Complex Systems [was: Ontologies vs Schemas vs Transformations]
    • From: Ian Graham <igraham@i...>
  • Re: Complex Systems [was: Ontologies vs Schemas vs Transformations]
    • From: "Simon St.Laurent" <simonstl@s...>
  • Re: Complex Systems [was: Ontologies vs Schemas vs Transformations]
    • From: "Chiusano Joseph" <chiusano_joseph@b...>

• References:
  • Ontologies vs Schemas vs Transformations (was Re: [Updated] A Categorization of Data Interoperability Problems)
    • From: Mike Champion <mc@x...>
  • Complex Systems [was: Ontologies vs Schemas vs Transformations]
    • From: "Roger L. Costello" <costello@m...>
  • Re: Complex Systems [was: Ontologies vs Schemas vs Transformations]
    • From: "Chiusano Joseph" <chiusano_joseph@b...>

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