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Re: FW: ezmlm warning


ezmlm warning
Don,
This is an example of what NOT to do when you have a question or problem
with the mailing list server.  If you contacted me directly, I would be
happy to explain to you how bounce handling works within ezmlm in general
and on xml-dev in particular.

I will be referring to a couple of documents:

http://www.mathematik.uni-ulm.de/help/qmail/ezmlm-warn.1.html
http://www.mathematik.uni-ulm.de/help/qmail/ezmlm-return.1.html

This is an exact description of how ezmlm handles delivery errors with
regard to the xml-dev mailing list:

1.  If a message cannot be delivered to a list subscriber, the message is
stored for a maximum of, roughly, 12 days.

2.  During that time, ezmlm-warn sends out probes to that subscriber to see
if mail delivery is working again. The message you forwarded to the list
below is that probe.

3.  If the timeout period is reach without a successful probe.  Undelivered
messages are deleted and the email address is unsubscribed.

If you feel that the mailing list program should operate in some other way
which you consider more reasonable than this, we can continue the dialogue
off-list.

The reason why our Canadian friend with the full mailbox is not getting
dropped off the list is that his SMTP server is receiving the mail, just not
keeping the mail.  If his mailbox didn't exist he would be dropped.

I hope this information helps.

Regards,
Jeffrey Lomas
OASIS




On 3/15/03 17:23, "Don Park" <donpark@d...> wrote:

> This is just an example of what is wrong with the mailing list program.  My
> ISP bounced two messages bounced in the recent past, two out of probably
> hundreds successfully sent before and after those bounces.  My ISP was
> probably going through maintenance or something small crisis like most small
> ISPs do.
> 
> Yet ezmlm is threatening to remove me from the list if a single probe it
> sends bounces.  Chances are the probe will not bounce, but if it does, I am
> going to get unsubscribed 'without further notice'.  More reasonable policy
> would be to monitor for a week and deal only with those that consistently
> bounce.  It is unreasonable for ezmlm to expect 100% uptime from my ISP nor
> is its warning helpful at all since there is nothing I can do about it.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Don Park
> Docuverse
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xml-dev-help@l... [mailto:xml-dev-help@l...]
> Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2003 1:27 PM
> To: donpark@d...
> Subject: ezmlm warning
> 
> Hi! This is the ezmlm program. I'm managing the
> xml-dev@l... mailing list.
> 
> I'm working for my owner, who can be reached
> at xml-dev-owner@l....
> 
> 
> Messages to you from the xml-dev mailing list seem to
> have been bouncing. I've attached a copy of the first bounce
> message I received.
> 
> If this message bounces too, I will send you a probe. If the probe bounces,
> I will remove your address from the xml-dev mailing list,
> without further notice.
> 
> 
> I've kept a list of which messages from the xml-dev mailing list have
> bounced from your address.
> 
> Copies of these messages may be in the archive.
> 
> To retrieve a set of messages 123-145 (a maximum of 100 per request),
> send an empty message to:
>  <xml-dev-get.123_145@l...>
> 
> To receive a subject and author list for the last 100 or so messages,
> send an empty message to:
>  <xml-dev-index@l...>
> 
> Here are the message numbers:
> 
>  21059
>  21060
> 
> --- Enclosed is a copy of the bounce message I received.
> 
> Return-Path: <>
> Received: (qmail 9222 invoked by uid 60881); 4 Mar 2003 05:19:51 -0000
> Received: from  by hermes by uid 0 with qmail-scanner-1.15
> (spamassassin: 2.43.  Clear:SA:0(-1.5/8.0):.
> Processed in 0.309863 secs); 04 Mar 2003 05:19:51 -0000
> X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-1.5 required=8.0
> Received: from unknown (HELO pyramid-02.kattare.com) (206.163.128.3)
> by mail.oasis-open.org with SMTP; 4 Mar 2003 05:19:50 -0000
> Received: from localhost (localhost)
> by pyramid-02.kattare.com (8.12.8/8.12.3) id h245QQ9f025251;
> Mon, 3 Mar 2003 21:26:26 -0800
> Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 21:26:26 -0800
> From: Mail Delivery Subsystem <MAILER-DAEMON@p...>
> Message-Id: <200303040526.h245QQ9f025251@p...>
> To: <xml-dev-return-21059-donpark=docuverse.com@l...>
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type: multipart/report; report-type=delivery-status;
> boundary="h245QQ9f025251.1046755586/pyramid-02.kattare.com"
> Subject: Returned mail: see transcript for details
> Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (failure)
> 
> This is a MIME-encapsulated message
> 
> --h245QQ9f025251.1046755586/pyramid-02.kattare.com
> 
> The original message was received at Mon, 3 Mar 2003 21:26:24 -0800
> from [209.202.168.102]
> 
>  ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
> <donpark@d...>
>   (reason: 550 5.7.1 <donpark@d...>... Relaying denied)
> 
>  ----- Transcript of session follows -----
> ... while talking to mail.kattare.com.:
>>>> DATA
> <<< 550 5.7.1 <donpark@d...>... Relaying denied
> 550 5.1.1 <donpark@d...>... User unknown
> <<< 503 5.0.0 Need RCPT (recipient)
> 
> --h245QQ9f025251.1046755586/pyramid-02.kattare.com
> Content-Type: message/delivery-status
> 
> Reporting-MTA: dns; pyramid-02.kattare.com
> Arrival-Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 21:26:24 -0800
> 
> Final-Recipient: RFC822; donpark@d...
> Action: failed
> Status: 5.7.1
> Remote-MTA: DNS; mail.kattare.com
> Diagnostic-Code: SMTP; 550 5.7.1 <donpark@d...>... Relaying denied
> Last-Attempt-Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 21:26:26 -0800
> 
> --h245QQ9f025251.1046755586/pyramid-02.kattare.com
> Content-Type: text/rfc822-headers
> 
> Return-Path: <xml-dev-return-21059-donpark=docuverse.com@l...>
> Received: from mail.oasis-open.org ([209.202.168.102])
> by pyramid-02.kattare.com (8.12.8/8.12.3) with SMTP id
> h245QObK025243
> for <donpark@d...>; Mon, 3 Mar 2003 21:26:24 -0800
> Received: (qmail 8243 invoked by uid 60909); 4 Mar 2003 05:18:44 -0000
> Mailing-List: contact xml-dev-help@l...; run by ezmlm
> Precedence: bulk
> X-No-Archive: yes
> List-Post: <mailto:xml-dev@l...>
> List-Help: <mailto:xml-dev-help@l...>
> List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:xml-dev-unsubscribe@l...>
> List-Subscribe: <mailto:xml-dev-subscribe@l...>
> Delivered-To: mailing list xml-dev@l...
> Received: (qmail 8237 invoked by uid 60881); 4 Mar 2003 05:18:44 -0000
> X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.7 required=8.0
> Message-ID: <3E6439CC.98A244F4@e...>
> Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 21:29:48 -0800
> From: Michael Brennan <mpbrennan@e...>
> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; U)
> X-Accept-Language: en
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> To: "xml-dev@l..." <xml-dev@l...>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> Subject:  [ANN] Small, simple Java-based XML output library
> X-MailScanner: Found to be clean
> X-MailScanner-Information: Please contact your ISP for more information - Be
> sure to include all mail headers
> X-MailScanner-SpamCheck: not spam, SpamAssassin (score=-6, required 5,
> BAYES_10, KNOWN_MAILING_LIST, TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL)
> 
> --h245QQ9f025251.1046755586/pyramid-02.kattare.com--
> 
> 
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> The xml-dev list is sponsored by XML.org <http://www.xml.org>, an
> initiative of OASIS <http://www.oasis-open.org>
> 
> The list archives are at http://lists.xml.org/archives/xml-dev/
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe from this list use the subscription
> manager: <http://lists.xml.org/ob/adm.pl>
> 
> 


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