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[XML-DEV Mailing List Archive Home] [By Thread] [By Date] [Recent Entries] [Reply To This Message] RE: Use cases for parsing efficiency (was Re: Parsin
 Uh, yeah. A few posts ago I believe Robin said binary XML is a misnomer and we are really discussing binary infosets. -- PITHY WORDS OF WISDOM Drive defensively--buy a tank. This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Matt [mailto:matt@e...] > Sent: Wednesday, February 26, 2003 12:59 PM > To: xml-dev@l... > > Seems to me that the bottle neck is not IO, or network, for > those people should be talking about compression. The > bottleneck seems to be parsing the XML back into a set of > useable objects. Apart from reasonably standard forms such > as SAX processing and DOM representations, there are various > other forms of storing deserialized XML. Many of these use > SAX underneath, so if this is your bottleneck, then persist a > binary form of the events given - say as a vector of event > objects, and reuse this. Perhaps persisting a binary form of > a DOM tree is what you want. > > In the end, I don't think the argument is about a binary form > of XML, it is about standard binary forms of deserialized > XML. The problem with that is that you aren't talking about > XML anymore :-) > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robin Berjon" <robin.berjon@e...> > To: "Mike Champion" <mc@x...> > Cc: <xml-dev@l...> > Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 7:12 AM > Subject: Re: Use cases for parsing efficiency (was > Re: Parsing efficiency? - why not 'compile'????) > > > > Mike Champion wrote: > > > As a matter of fact, until a few > > > months ago I was as much a scoffer at the arguments that Al and > > > Robin raise as any of you. > > > > As was I until I stopped thinking that people that used XML in the > situations > > where binary infosets are needed were doing something > stupid or evil > > and > started > > looking at some real life use cases. If in a system XML works great > overall and > > fails on one or two points, it's better to address those > points than > > to > throw > > out the baby with the angle brackets. > > > > > My day job colleagues changed my mind by pointing out that in > > > industrial- strength, native XML processing environments, nothing > > > much is happening besides XML being parsed, processed (stored, > > > queried, > > > transformed) and serialized again. (...) I've heard the > same thing > > > from industrial-strength SOAP developers -- as the volume of > > > messages goes up and processing resources get dedicated to XML > > > (i.e., no application logic or DB access happening on the machine > > > parsing, processing, serializing the XML), then the > bottlenecks in > > > XML parsing become increasingly apparent. > > > > If you have any more or less detailed > stories/numbers/examples I'd be > happy to > > have them (offlist) to see if they bring up points we > haven't covered > > yet > and > > coroborate our feedback and experience with binary SOAP. > > > > > So why should you all care about standardization of processing > > > pipelines that are generally *internal* to products? > > > > Because they're not necessarily internal :) What happens if > you want > > to > plug two > > high-performance SOAP implementations together that both > use different > binary > > infosets? What do standard bodies that include SOAP in > their specs and > want to > > use binfosets because they are targetting a variety of > platforms, some > > of > them > > constrained use as their format? An audio-video MPEG-7 > stream contains > literally > > tons of metadata (originally XML) how does my SemWeb agent > use that to > order > > pizza when the finale starts so that I have it right when > the film is > over? > > > > Binfosets are considered for MMS. That's not very internal > :) etc.,etc. > > > > > I'm not completely sure you > > > should. One might argue that you as customers of / > developers for > > > enterprise-class XML processing software may wish to tap into the > > > pipelines at a lower level, e.g. grab the rawest Infoset > data out of > > > a DBMS before it gets sanitized and standardized by the API level > > > > If what you want is really high speed processing then it's likely > > you'll > want to > > do that. We have a low-level API (SAXt) and high-level APIs for > transparency > > (typically SAX), and the speed difference is very much noticeable. > > > > -- > > Robin Berjon <robin.berjon@e...> > > Research Engineer, Expway http://expway.fr/ > > 7FC0 6F5F D864 EFB8 08CE 8E74 58E6 D5DB 4889 2488 > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > > The xml-dev list is sponsored by XML.org <http://www.xml.org>, an > > initiative of OASIS <http://www.oasis-open.org> > > > > The list archives are at http://lists.xml.org/archives/xml-dev/ > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe from this list use the subscription > > manager: <http://lists.xml.org/ob/adm.pl> > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > The xml-dev list is sponsored by XML.org > <http://www.xml.org>, an initiative of OASIS > <http://www.oasis-open.org> > > The list archives are at http://lists.xml.org/archives/xml-dev/ > > To subscribe or unsubscribe from this list use the subscription > manager: <http://lists.xml.org/ob/adm.pl> > > 
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