Re: The Browser Wars are Dead! Long Live the Browser Wars!
On Monday, October 21, 2002, at 01:49 PM, Gerben Rampaart ((Casnet Brussel)) wrote: >> Plus, Java is a good example of how not to do an OO language. > > O please, do Elaborate ... > Not here. I'll send you a private email. > Gerben. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: tblanchard@m... [mailto:tblanchard@m...] > Sent: 21 October 2002 13:40 > To: mbatsis@n... > Cc: Paul Prescod; xml-dev@l...; Bullard Claude L (Len) > Subject: Re: The Browser Wars are Dead! Long Live the Browser > Wars! > > > > On Monday, October 21, 2002, at 11:36 AM, m batsis wrote: > >> tblanchard@m... wrote: >>> No, none of these are enough (well, maybe java, only the current >>> implementations aren't up to it). These only specify *appearances* >>> not behavior. We want to get behavior into the UI layer. No more >>> elaborate syntax is going to solve this problem. >> >> Java certainly does include behavior although seperation of conserns >> is another subject. You may be interested in UIML  on that. > > I did mention Java might be an exception - but the implementations have > been really lacking in performance. Honestly, when was the last time > you saw a really useful (cr)applet? Plus, Java is a good example of > how not to do an OO language. > > I looked at UIML and it looks like a bad joke to me. I can't remember > when I've seen something less readable and more complicated that did so > little. So much noise for so little signal. > > Your later comment about hammers is particularly applicable. ML's are > really poor mechanisms for describing behavior. They're sort of poor > mechanisms for describing relationships (they impose a sort of > directional view via the element nesting that is artificial - is artist > inside of CD or is CD inside of artist - depends). They're not bad for > describing elements in streams. Sadly, the "well formedness" > requirements in XML makes them not particularly good for general > "markup" as well. Markup (think red pen) is more free form than that. > >> But XUL and company is by far the most well designed framework I have >> some experience with. XBL  contains the behavior and provides >> almost unlimited extensibility in a flexible approach. > > You ought to spend some time doing WebObjects development. Because > XBL also looks like a mishmash of Java and XML and is overly verbose > and unreadable. I'm not too impressed. > >>> The problem as I see it is that >>> XML is a retrograde development in computer science and application >>> architecture. >> >> Hammers are the best in what they do. Similarly, XML offers new >> possibilities in exchanging and using datastructures, provides for >> interoperability and many more. But this surely belongs to other >> threads... > > Are we talking about application delivery over the web or not? Because > you have to question the underlying assumptions and examine the > evolutionary path that lead us to this location. Failing to consider > that is to blindly accept that things are correct because thats the way > they are. > >> >>> In the early software days the emphasis was on behavior (C, Fortran, >>> Pascal, procedures, functions) and data was secondary. Presently the >>> emphasis appears to be data formats (and serial ones at that). >> >> I enjoy clever data formats that allow reusable behavior code. > > I do too. Sadly, we've stripped the behavior off of the data now. Its > still inanimate - whether its xml or result sets, the data is still > passive. I don't see this as progress. > > >>> Somewhere in between was a balanced approach that bound behavior with >>> data into entities we called "objects". It is my opinion that >>> browsers need to move from glorified page layout engines with ugly >>> scripting languages towards full blown distributed object engines >>> that happen to have rich page layout capabilities. >> >> The problem is this sounds generic enough for one to say it's alrady >> done ;-) > > Examples? I don't see one. If I did, I'd use it for developing the > latest web based house of cards my client wants. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > The xml-dev list is sponsored by XML.org <http://www.xml.org>, an > initiative of OASIS <http://www.oasis-open.org> > > The list archives are at http://lists.xml.org/archives/xml-dev/ > > To subscribe or unsubscribe from this list use the subscription > manager: <http://lists.xml.org/ob/adm.pl> > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------- > The xml-dev list is sponsored by XML.org <http://www.xml.org>, an > initiative of OASIS <http://www.oasis-open.org> > > The list archives are at http://lists.xml.org/archives/xml-dev/ > > To subscribe or unsubscribe from this list use the subscription > manager: <http://lists.xml.org/ob/adm.pl> >
PURCHASE STYLUS STUDIO ONLINE TODAY!
Purchasing Stylus Studio from our online shop is Easy, Secure and Value Priced!
Download The World's Best XML IDE!
Accelerate XML development with our award-winning XML IDE - Download a free trial today!
Subscribe in XML format