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Sean RussellSubject: Improving CVS support
Author: Sean Russell
Date: 08 Jun 2004 01:27 PM
My question is regarding the CVS integration. We've found the ZeusSCC-CVS
interface to be exceedingly slow and have a number of questions about it, and
were wondering about our options for improving source control integration
support in Stylus Studio.

1. It takes the ZeusSCC-CVS plug-in about five minutes to check out or update a
project that the command line CVS client takes less than a minute to check out,
and a matter of seconds to update. The amount of time it takes to check out
isn't as much of an issue as the amount of time it takes to update; an update
using ZeusSCC-CVS is as slow as a fresh check-out. Can we speed this up?

2. Stylus Studio, by default, locks everything when a project is first created.
Can this be avoided? Is there a way to disable the locking before the project
is checked out (we know that there's a way to do it after the project is checked
out, but by then it is too late.)

3. The Stylus Studio Project manager doesn't pick up new files added to the
repository. This, in itself, isn't an issue, but the fact that Stylus Studio
only allows you to add files to a project one at a time makes this unacceptable.

4. We're considering Subversion as an alternative to CVS. What would be
involved in getting that integrated into Stylus Studio?

5. We've considered trying to add custom commands to Stylus Studio, to make it
use the CVS command-line client; however, this wouldn't integrate with the
Project manager, and we don't see a way of creating new menus for these
features. If Stylus Studio has some sort of API scripting mechanism beyond what
we've found, we'd appreciate being informed about it.

Thanks,

Sean

Postnext
Alberto MassariSubject: Re: Improving CVS support
Author: Alberto Massari
Date: 09 Jun 2004 09:29 AM
Hi Sean,

At 13.30 08/06/2004 -0400, stylus-studio-tech Listmanager wrote:
>From: "Sean Russell" <srussell@elemica.com>
>
>My question is regarding the CVS integration. We've found the ZeusSCC-CVS
>interface to be exceedingly slow and have a number of questions about it, and
>were wondering about our options for improving source control integration
>support in Stylus Studio.
>
>1. It takes the ZeusSCC-CVS plug-in about five minutes to check out or
>update a
>project that the command line CVS client takes less than a minute to check
>out,
>and a matter of seconds to update. The amount of time it takes to check out
>isn't as much of an issue as the amount of time it takes to update; an update
>using ZeusSCC-CVS is as slow as a fresh check-out. Can we speed this up?

This must be a limitation of the ZeusSCC-CVS plug-in; you may want to try
another plug-in called ActiveCVS
(http://members.cox.net/preston.bannister/activecvs/index.html) that claims
to use the status files to avoid unnecessary network roundtrips. Another
one is Igloo (http://www.jalindi.com/igloo/).
In any case, I'll try to see if we can drive the plug-in in a more
efficient way; I guess you are also connecting to a repository where the
data in in several directories, aren't you?


>2. Stylus Studio, by default, locks everything when a project is first
>created.
>Can this be avoided? Is there a way to disable the locking before the
>project
>is checked out (we know that there's a way to do it after the project is
>checked
>out, but by then it is too late.)

The concept of "locked file" is typical of the SourceSafe/SCCAPI world,
that is different from the meaning it has in the CVS world (SourceSafe
works using the paradigm check-out/edit/check-in, while CVS uses
edit/commit). Can you make an example of what you are doing and what would
be the expected result?


>3. The Stylus Studio Project manager doesn't pick up new files added to the
>repository. This, in itself, isn't an issue, but the fact that Stylus Studio
>only allows you to add files to a project one at a time makes this
>unacceptable.

That is a known limitation: the workaround is to drag & drop the files from
an Explorer window to the Project pane.


>4. We're considering Subversion as an alternative to CVS. What would be
>involved in getting that integrated into Stylus Studio?

It would require someone to write a SCCAPI-compliant plugin for Subversion.
For the moment it seems that the Ankh project has only developed a VS.NET
add-in. You could try asking them if they plan to support SCCAPI as well.


>5. We've considered trying to add custom commands to Stylus Studio, to
>make it
>use the CVS command-line client; however, this wouldn't integrate with the
>Project manager, and we don't see a way of creating new menus for these
>features. If Stylus Studio has some sort of API scripting mechanism
>beyond what
>we've found, we'd appreciate being informed about it.

Unfortunately, we don't explose a plug-in API for the project manager. What
kind of support would you like to have? Binding a custom command to a type
of file and being able to invoke it from the context menu (using the file
name as an argument) would be enough?

Thanks for the feedback,
Alberto


Postnext
Sean RussellSubject: Re: Improving CVS support
Author: Sean Russell
Date: 09 Jun 2004 11:17 AM
At 13.30 08/06/2004 -0400, stylus-studio-tech Listmanager wrote:
> >1. It takes the ZeusSCC-CVS plug-in about five minutes to check
> > out or update a
>
> This must be a limitation of the ZeusSCC-CVS plug-in; you may want
> to try another plug-in called ActiveCVS
> (http://members.cox.net/preston.bannister/activecvs/index.html) that
> claims to use the status files to avoid unnecessary network
> roundtrips. Another one is Igloo (http://www.jalindi.com/igloo/).

Thanks, we'll try those.

> efficient way; I guess you are also connecting to a repository where the
> data in in several directories, aren't you?

Well, yes... the directory tree for this particular project is three
or four levels deep.

> >2. Stylus Studio, by default, locks everything when a project is first
> >created.
>
> The concept of "locked file" is typical of the SourceSafe/SCCAPI world,
> that is different from the meaning it has in the CVS world (SourceSafe
> works using the paradigm check-out/edit/check-in, while CVS uses
> edit/commit). Can you make an example of what you are doing and what would
> be the expected result?

Yes; SourceSafe uses pessemistic locking, while CVS uses optimistic
locking. The issue is that Stylus Studio is claiming to chmod the files
that it checks out "read only" by default. This can be changed in the
SCC preferences after a project is checked out. This may be a non-issue;
I'll need to see if there is any practical effect.

> >3. The Stylus Studio Project manager doesn't pick up new files added to the
>
> That is a known limitation: the workaround is to drag & drop the files from
> an Explorer window to the Project pane.

Ok, thanks.

> >5. We've considered trying to add custom commands to Stylus Studio, to
>
> Unfortunately, we don't explose a plug-in API for the project manager. What
> kind of support would you like to have? Binding a custom command to a type
> of file and being able to invoke it from the context menu (using the file
> name as an argument) would be enough?

Initially, I had thought of some mechanism allowing us to define menus,
and bind menu items to custom tools. This would allow us to implement our
own SCC menu. However, this would not make the Stylus Studio Project manager
SCC-aware. So I guess I was hoping to hear about some scripting API that would
allow us to write our own SCC-Stylus Studio integration mechanism.

In any case, if one of the other CVS bindings works better than the Zeuss
binding, we'll be happy. Scripting support of Stylus Studio is a low
priority at the moment.

Thanks for the rapid response.

--- SER

Posttop
Sean RussellSubject: Re: Improving CVS support
Author: Sean Russell
Date: 09 Jun 2004 01:37 PM
I've tried both Active-CVS and Igloo. Both are much, much faster
than Zeuss. Igloo has a flashy UI, with dialog boxes and so on.
Active-CVS is straightforward and simple (which is appealing), but it
doesn't know how to check out a project from the repository -- it can only
work with modules that have already been checked out.

Thanks for the pointers. Both of these are much better than
ZeussSCC-CVS, and I think either solves our problems.

--- SER

 
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