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Re: "Introducing MicroXML, Part 1: Explore the basic principle
- From: BillClare3@aol.com
- To: Peter.Rushforth@NRCan-RNCan.gc.ca, xml-dev@l...
- Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 23:35:43 -0400 (EDT)
. This a fascinating discussion about
what is fundamental to XML, but I find that most of the discussion focuses on whether or not something is
useful without really stating for what it might be useful.
. So what is really trying
to be accomplished here ?
1. The first
objective seems to be to âtrim the weedsâ of an overly complex
specification. This might be very
useful if it were the basis for continued efforts, but that seems unlikely.
From James Clarksâs
âRandomThoughtsâ the main advantages here are ease of support in parsers
and tools, ease of use â especially
for new users, and the avoiding of explicit (and implicit) use of subsets that
are being developed anyway.
2. It seems clear
that this not meant as a markup language.
3. MicroXML can be
useful for messages.
4. MicroXML can
possibly be useful as a data store for various specifications.
5. Other ?
. Fundamental simplicity is
achievable by eliminating attributes (with greater potential for simplifying
schema), simplifying relative URIâs, and severely sub-setting the characters
sets allowed (except where needed for URIâs). This simplicity would also greatly simplify
schema validation. But I suspect the simplicity route is already
lost to JSON and to the myriad tools that generate and edit XML for neophytes.
Also, such radical surgery raises
issues of what can still be called XML.
. For items 3 and 4
some linking capability for specifications is very useful, and this
is provided in the xmlns attribute.
. The term
âaffordancesâ is interesting but I canât seem to figure out what it really
means, other than a set of implied attributes. I suspect that it is meant to imply
support for actions for an application to take, but Iâm not sure what would be
generally useful here other than âincludeâ (which is implicit in xmlns) or to include some verification
rules or schema. Actions do imply a
higher application level, but what is proposed seems to enable such a layer
rather than to provide it.
. I believe that,
unfortunately, the real complexities of XML have sprung up from the weed garden
with other specifications, tools and applications that have introduced far more
untamed growth. If one really wanted to make XML based standards a lot simpler,
dealing with that would of course require far more comprehensive efforts. Given
the accelerating rate of proliferation of diverse, inconsistent and ever more
specialized technologies and tools, this may become worthwhile as a
comprehensive foundation for application development.
P. S. Sorry that AOL doesn't handle replies to this list correctly.
In a message dated 7/5/2012 9:32:03 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
John. It doesn't explain why these ideas died with a
other than there was no clamor for it.
For Peter, I think
the challenge is to pose the problem(s) that will be
solved by adding
linking semantics to XML that aren't solved otherwise.
Given the near
obsession with HATEOAS of late, he might do well to start
state-diagrams where uncertainty is flattened away by the
designer so the need for an n-way link and external links
supersymmetry, a solution to a problem of the theory but
I'm off to accompany Jerry Garcia into Mordor to see if hobbits
really aliens with hairy feet.
From: John Cowan [mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org] On Behalf Of John
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2012 7:53 PM
To: Len Bullard
Rushforth, Peter; email@example.com
Subject: Re: "Introducing
MicroXML, Part 1: Explore the basic
principles of MicroXML"
> John Cowan might be
able to explain what became of this work.
I never got it quite right,
and I never had the energy or motivation
to pursue a slightly-wrong
implementation. Eventually it fell off my
> My point is to note that work on these concepts
stretched out over a
> decade from when that first article was published
> itself had been around a few years by that point) and
some of the most
> brilliant minds in the markup tribe worked on
> And without much fanfare, it died.
The best may be
the enemy of the good, but the good often returns
But the next day there came no dawn,
and the Grey Company passed on into the
darkness of the Storm of Mordor and
lost to mortal sight; but the
followed them. --"The Passing of the
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