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Re: Where is XML going

  • From: BillClare3@aol.com
  • To: dlee@calldei.com, xml-dev@l...
  • Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2010 15:39:35 EST

Re:  Where is XML going
Clearly a well defined goal is a crucial problem here. 
 
I, for one, start with a simple argument based on the following premises and a conclusion:
 
* XML has many  audiences - but most significantly that of the application developer.
 
* And what do application developers need when they sit down to create something ?  A fundamental specification language, that is both far simpler and more powerful.  It would have its roots in XML and related standards, which already have powerful support for building models.
 
* And the most significant of these models are those that support a Model-View-Controller paradigm.  This includes models for Data, for Views, for Communication and for Control.
 
With this, the developer has a complete foundation for a specification (as opposed to procedural) framework for applications.  Thus, this should define criteria that is both necessary and sufficient to judge any new effort. 
 
Attached are set of Power Point slides that somewhat summarize this approach.
 
 
In a message dated 12/4/2010 2:56:26 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, dlee@calldei.com writes:

Really enjoying the latest discussions.   Totally agree that to accomplish things people have to "do something".

I am and I will and I'd like to be involved.

But … but … before we build the next Empire State Building.

What is it we really want.   Fundamentally ?

Lots of talk of features and simplicity and compatibility  … all great things.

But to the core of it, what is the "Mission Statement" ?
There seems to be a *presumption* that where XML is 'failing' its because  it didn’t live up to "SGML for the Web".

So ok, we want XML "on the web" whatever that means …

But do we ?

 

I think it would be interesting to discuss *and possibly agree!!* (ha ha) on what We Want XML(N+1) to actually accomplish.

Do we really want or need to build from the ground up with the goal of "XML On the Web" … ? Is that what everyone wants ?

Does it matter if 'we agree' ?   

I for one, could care less if native XML 'rendered in a browser'.    I can translate XML to HTML for that on the server in real-time.

Or in a mobile device in real-time.  To me the Browser is just a display engine.   I don’t care what codes it takes ,they don’t have to be XML.  As long as I can generate it from what I have.

The days of static resources are last decade,.  Everything (nearly) nowadays is dynamically created.  So what does it matter what the rendering markup is like as long as it works.  The HTML(n+n+n) team are hard at work fighting that out.   I'm happy to let them and duck.

 

Do we want "XML as a Database" ?  I like that.  I think we *have it already* .. although the tool stack could use some revamping, but there are serious guns producing great tools for "XML As a Database".

 

How about "XML as a data transfer serialization" ?? We have that !

XML to represents Documents ?   We have that !

 

 

All this talk to me seems to be to be largely on "Getting XML into the browser" and "Making XML digestible by Web Developers".

Sure ok, but what value does this have *to them" ?   Or to us ?

Why is this important enough to dedicate a few hundred man-years on …

 

I hope for lots of disagreements … but honestly I don’t see what the big problem is with what we have right now, flaws and all.

XML can translate to *anything*.

 

if I were to vote for a "New XML" it would be something like gXML

http://www.balisage.net/Proceedings/vol5/html/Lewis01/BalisageVol5-Lewis01.html

 

Something that actually approaches new problems and solutions.  I'm personally much more interested in making XML more intrinsically useful as a data modeling language then forcing it down the throats of web developers.

 

If we want new API's I'm all for it.  The more the better … although, IMHO, we have pretty damn good ones right now.

 

So what's the Big Elephant were trying to achieve ?

 

 

-David

 

 

 

 

----------------------------------------

David A. Lee

dlee@calldei.com

http://www.xmlsh.org/

 

Whither XML 101203.ppt



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