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Re: SQL5

  • From: Rick Marshall <rjm@z...>
  • To: Dmitry Turin <sql4-en@n...>
  • Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 07:03:34 +1000

Re:  SQL5

1. gotcha - australian colloquial (i guess) - the little things that go 
wrong that you just don't expect - they "get you"
2. team size - me
3. yes 30 years - i'm known for me bloody minded persistence - 
translation from australian - persistence in the face of potential 
failure /impossible difficulties, until the job is done
4. SQL (from memory) was originally defined by Ted Codd as part of 
System R - the first relational database. It was later formalised and 
then standardised. The standard has been updated over the years. You can 
implement SQL by implementing a language that conforms to the standard. 
You can extend SQL informally by adding to a conformant product and by 
offering the extension to the body that maintains the standard. That's a 
reasonable process used all the time by the mainstream database vendors. 
Of course you can call anything you like SQL, but if it doesn't have a 
conforming base you'll just annoy all your potential customers - they 
will object to the deception.
5. one to one translations - ultimately to machine code - is an 
important subject, but not enough space to cover that here.


Dmitry Turin wrote:
> Rick,
> RM> you don't know what the gotchas will be.
> Excuse me, what does mean word "gotchas" ?
> RM> Get a customer, build a first pass (alpha) version,
> RM> put it into the field. If it's any good it will start to get a life of
> RM> it's own - and you'll make a good living along the way.
> +
> RM> It took me 10 years to get a a very
> RM> good implementation and another 10 years to get a stable implementation
> RM> - even though the syntax looks simple enough.
> How big was your team ?
> RM> The next 10 years for me have been taken up with folding new technologies such as
> RM> browsers, javascript, etc into the product.
> Total: 30 years ?
> RM> Don't call it SQL - it's simply not.
> Arguments are absent again.
> Let i guess: you define SQL as matching to template
> 'EnglishWord Parameter EnglishWord Parameter EnglishWord Parameter', i.e.
> 'select      ...       from        ...       where       ...',       and nothing else.
> RM> syntax you propose actually adds anything.
> I must point you attention once again: SQL5 is _heterogeneous_ project.
> There are several ideas, not binding to each other.
> RM> There is a one to one translation into SQL
> as well as one to one translation from C to assembler, from Prolog to C.
> RM> and most database
> RM> programmers would do the translation in their head every day.
> Manual labour instead of machine labour.
>>> RS> your design might have a flaw that can only be found during implementation.
>>> Speculatively
>>> RS> I don't think you've actually TAKEN a single bit of the advice
>>> Advice is (in order of following) to not bring different syntax,
>>> to separate from existing databases, to fear (look first quotation).
> Dmitry Turin
> SQL5      (5.5.0)  http://sql50.euro.ru
> HTML6     (6.4.3)  http://html60.euro.ru
> Unicode7  (7.2.0)  http://unicode70.euro.ru
> Computer2 (2.0.2)  http://computer20.euro.ru
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