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RE: Data streams

• To: "Stephen E. Beller" <sbeller@n...>, "Peter Hunsberger" <peter.hunsberger@g...>
• Subject: RE: Data streams
• From: "Chiusano Joseph" <chiusano_joseph@b...>
• Date: Mon, 6 Dec 2004 18:37:19 -0500
• Cc: <xml-dev@l...>
• Thread-index: AcTb6i0+E/MRM/8WThyUGhPx3mA28wAAb1Lg
• Thread-topic: Data streams

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stephen E. Beller [mailto:sbeller@n...] 
> Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 6:17 PM
> To: 'Peter Hunsberger'
> Cc: xml-dev@l...
> Subject: RE:  Data streams
> 
> As I said initially, larger data elements do change the 
> ratios. To go to the opposite extreme, large blocks of text 
> can actually be handled MORE efficiently with XML than CSV.
> 
> On the other hand, the larger the attributes and other tag 
> "labels," the greater the ratio, and visa versa.
> 
> So, all I'm saying is that there are times when XML make more 
> sense than CSV, and certain situations make CSV superior. No 
> one solution is right for all circumstances. 
> 
> By choosing the method that fits most sensibly with the data 
> will help alleviate some of the XML backlash. A good seems to 
> be that, everything else being equal, (a) the longer the tags 
> or the shorter the data elements, the less sense it makes to 
> transport the data via XML and (b) the shorter the tags or 
> the longer the data elements, the more sense it makes to 
> transport the data via XML. Anyone disagree?

On the notion of transporting data via XML: I know that SOAP has not yet
been mentioned in this thread, and the point I am about to make is
somewhat tangential, but I thought some might be interested to see the
results of a study[1] done by some folks in Australia (one at U of Tech,
Sydney) that compared performance of real-time trading systems using a
text-based wire representation (FIX) and SOAP. From the intro:

"in realistic business application scenarios, SOAP's poor performance
cannot be adequately explained simply by the disadvantages of text-based
over binary wire formats. This also suggests that improvements in the
efficiency of SOAP encoders and decoders may enable its use in high
performance business applications."

Interesting conclusion...

[1] http://www2003.org/cdrom/papers/alternate/P872/p872-kohlhoff.html

Kind Regards,
Joseph Chiusano
Booz Allen Hamilton
Strategy and Technology Consultants to the World
 
> Steve
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter Hunsberger [mailto:peter.hunsberger@g...]
> Sent: Monday, December 06, 2004 5:24 PM
> To: Stephen E. Beller
> Cc: xml-dev@l...
> Subject: Re:  Data streams
> 
> On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 16:35:48 -0500, Stephen E. Beller 
> <sbeller@n...>
> wrote:
> > In consideration of Elliotte's reply, I went back and looked at the 
> > XML
> file
> > Excel generated. Here's what I found ...
> > 
> > Every one of the XML data elements had this tagging structure:
> > <Row>
> >    <Cell><Data ss:Type="Number">1</Data></Cell> </Row>
> > 
> > In contrast, the CSV had this structure: 1,
> > 
> > That's a 50 characters to 1 difference for each data element.
> > 
> > I doubt that all those XML tags are necessary if you're 
> rendering the 
> > data in something other than a spreadsheet. But if you are 
> planning to 
> > use a spreadsheet, then the 50 to 1 ratio is valid, it seems to me.
> 
> Use the number 10, now the difference is 51 to 2 or a ratio 
> of ~26 to 1.  Use the number 100 and the ratio is 52 to 3 or 
> ~17 to 1.  Six digits? 56 to 6 or ~10 to 1. Now add multiple 
> columns of data (as any realistic example would do) and the 
> ratio falls even farther.
> 
> <snip/>
> > 
> > So, this benchmark test still points to a huge difference 
> in file size 
> > and in unzipping and parsing time when you compare a large 
> data array 
> > in CSV compared to XML.
> 
> Maybe, maybe not, the bench mark needs to be more realistic 
> before you draw any conclusions about "huge".
> 
> --
> Peter Hunsberger
> 
> 
> 
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