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[XML-DEV Mailing List Archive Home] [By Thread] [By Date] [Recent Entries] [Reply To This Message] RE: Fast text output from SAX?
 No Bob, it isn't bad, but the XMLers don't need to be lectured either as if they had their wooden shoes in hand ready to throw them into the looms. A binary can have all of the problems that Elliotte mentions, and because of the experiences with that over the years, and there is a lot of experience that led to XML, hard questions are going to be asked and requirements levied. Whether the winner of this is ASN.1, myXMLBinary, or whether the result is that a generalized binary isn't worth the effort and costs, or that best practices for XML binaries per application type should be created, all of the hard questions must be asked and answered. There were reasons to go to markup over all of the binary solutions that dominated the markets when that decision was made. The success of that decision is evident by the near ubiquitous use of markup systems now and the ease with which unprecedented integration and standardization is occurring. Be sure that all serious and experienced programmers, authors, users analysts and customers will be reviewing their current problems and successes prior to implementing and using formats which so far only meet the need for speed where speed is not the critical determinant. QWERTY keyboards were designed in a time when it was necessary to slow down a typist. Markup was designed in a time when the scale of implementation and the heterogeneity of the environment forced all local system requirements out of the design. It is a compromise but it works. Syntax is NOT trivial. Syntax is the absolute zero point origin of the interface between the machine and the humans who use it. It is the best point of compromise between what the machine needs for speed and what the human needs for clarity. It liberates the information from the company that makes the machine and the programmer who creates the software that runs on that machine. It was a long and hard fought battle to achieve that at the scale it has been achieved and it will not be rolled back so companies that make their bones on high performance can break a few more. len From: Bob Wyman [mailto:bob@w...] Elliotte Rusty Harold wrote: >At 9:00 AM -0400 4/16/04, Stephen D. Williams wrote: >>Binary doesn't imply there isn't any well-formedness >> checking, obviously. > For once I agree. Obviously, binary doesn't imply that. > However, in practice, the binary formats I do see rarely > do as much well-formedness checking as a parser does, > either in the XML domain or elsewhere. It sounds like you've had some bad experiences with poorly written code that worked with binary data. All of us have. However, that doesn't make it right to attack the whole class of binary formats or programmers who use binary formats. It just means that when you're working with binary stuff you *must* be more careful -- much more careful. While folk are often "casual" about their handling of text-based stuff, when you're working with binary, you really must pay attention. For some applications, the "cost" of greater diligence is justified. For others, it isn't. Of course, the easiest way to avoid or reduce these problems is to use code libraries that have long and proven histories. For instance, when I use ASN.1 binary formats, I typically use the OSS Nokalva stuff which is the result of well over 15 years of development, testing, and proof in the field. Since I'm using a proven library, I can be a great deal more relaxed about these issues then someone using some random package that they discovered by doing a SourceForge search... We don't need to be lectured on the fact that working with binary requires a higher standard of diligence and discipline than working with text-based encodings. This is obvious. But, just because it's a bit "harder" doesn't mean it is bad. bob wyman ----------------------------------------------------------------- The xml-dev list is sponsored by XML.org <http://www.xml.org>, an initiative of OASIS <http://www.oasis-open.org> The list archives are at http://lists.xml.org/archives/xml-dev/ To subscribe or unsubscribe from this list use the subscription manager: <http://www.oasis-open.org/mlmanage/index.php> 
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