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Re: SVG Can't Replace XUL

• To: Gerald Bauer <luxorxul@y...>
• Subject: Re: SVG Can't Replace XUL
• From: Robin Berjon <robin.berjon@e...>
• Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 23:51:40 +0100
• Cc: xml-dev@l...
• In-reply-to: <20040226203526.4774.qmail@w...>
• References: <20040226203526.4774.qmail@w...>
• User-agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.6b) Gecko/20031205 Thunderbird/0.4

Gerald Bauer wrote:
>   Well, using SVG to replace XUL is wishfull thinking.

Not to replace, to implement. Getting people to agree on what's needed 
in a UI system is wishful thinking. I sure hate every single GUI toolkit 
that I've tried to use.

> SVG is markup for rich 2D graphics. XUL is markup for
> rich widgets (e.g. windows, wizards, dialogs, trees,
> datagrids, splitters, menus, toolbars, and so on).

Rich widgets aren't created out of thin air, they're created using rich 
2D graphics.

>   If you build a complete cross-browser widget set
> using SVG, SVG-DOM, SVG-RSS, Javascript and whatever
> than you'll end up with the whole DHTML
> (Javascript,DOM,HTML) cross-browser mess we are stuck
> today all over again.

You're thinking in terms of a world in which IE6 or NN4 are the targets 
and the future. If that's case, then we're all doomed anyway, or at 
least stuck with antiquated tagsoup and gif rendering engines.

> Just imagine when every SVG page
> includes its own widget library in SVG. Why not attach
> a copy of Windows with every page instead?

You have a talent for exaggeration. For one it's still better than 
having to download twelve different XUL implementations, and also HTTP 
caching has been invented for a reason. Besides, widget implementations 
tend to be fairly small in my experience.

> Isn't a
> binary transfer more efficient?

It often is, but that's an orthogonal permathread.

>   By the way, why include MathML in your standards
> portfolio when you can easily use SVG to render
> MathML?

MathML has its semantic value, which is worthwhile in itself. Beyond 
that, yes you could use SVG to render MathML.

I'm not saying that having a standard XUL is bad idea, just that if 
you're targeting desktops then it'll be really hard to get people to 
agree, and given the power of desktops why not get them to disagree in 
harmony instead?

I see value in a simple, stupid, XULish thing for the Mobile (and other 
limited devices) domain. I believe Jun Jicrosystems has something for 
that, called Jsomething (yeah I know that doesn't help, don't blame me 
though).

-- 
Robin Berjon

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• References:
  • SVG Can't Replace XUL
    • From: Gerald Bauer <luxorxul@y...>

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