[XML-DEV Mailing List Archive Home] [By Thread] [By Date] [Recent Entries] [Reply To This Message]

Re: Is an element's name metadata?

• To: Allen Razdow <arazdow@m...>
• Subject: Re: Is an element's name metadata?
• From: "Chiusano Joseph" <chiusano_joseph@b...>
• Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2003 15:56:46 -0400
• Cc: "Bullard Claude L (Len)" <clbullar@i...>, "'Chris Wilper'" <cwilper@c...>, Gustaf Liljegren <gustaf.liljegren@b...>, xml-dev@l...
• Organization: BAH
• References: <8D1EA20CE6AB1043956A27D60E468F1C027C56F6@d...>

<Quote>
"Anything you can do I can do meta!"....:)
</Quote>

Ouch!!!! :)

Allen Razdow wrote:
> 
> IMO, because field-names (column names) in a relational database are
> referred to as meta-data along with the rest of the database schema, XML
> element names, and the schema/DTD are likewise meta-data relative to the
> data in the element.  Clearly, "meta" is a recursive concept.  As they said
> on Broadway, "Anything you can do I can do meta!"....:)
> 
> -Allen Razdow
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bullard, Claude L (Len) [mailto:clbullar@i...]
> Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 2:00 PM
> To: 'Chris Wilper'; Gustaf Liljegren; xml-dev@l...
> 
> The question is as Chris shows, in the view
> set by the relationship.  In
> 
> <reporter>John Smith</reporter>
> 
> it is a fair assumption that John Smith
> IS-A reporter; therefore, the data in
> the tag (the element name) is about the
> content.  Some will agree that is metadata
> (data about data).  However given
> 
> <li number="1.">John Smith</li>
> <li number="3.">Georgiana Geyer</li>
> 
> some will agree that the data in the
> tag is not about the content, or if so,
> has to be gotten from documentation.
> The role depends on the relationship provided
> or enforced by the processor.
> 
> In other words, perhaps that is bad HTML. AN
> HTML processor ignores the attribute and enforces
> the rendering relationship (IS-A member of a list).
> On the other hand, in a different processor
> would imply that the relationship has a different
> meaning.  Given a context and different proceessor
> 
> <rankOfImportance>
>    <li number="1.">John Smith</li>
>    <li number="3.">Georgiana Geyer</li>
> </rankOfImportance>
> 
> could mean something different and the outer
> context setting tag (rankOfImportance) is
> redundant.
> 
> That would be context as you say, but it
> is the processor, automated or human, that
> understands and enforces the relationship.
> 
> XML is deliberately agnostic about such issues.
> That is why I say, "XML Doesn't Know; so XML
> Doesn't Care.  You do."
> 
> len
> 
> From: Chris Wilper [mailto:cwilper@c...]
> 
> I usually avoid the distinction unless forced
> otherwise by a tool or framework, because it often
> limits people's imagined use of information.
> 
> XML itself says nothing about this, which is good IMO.
> What you describe in your second scenario looks a bit like
> RDF-XML... where the structure of the data has
> about-ness implications.
> 
> - Chris
> 
> From: Gustaf Liljegren [mailto:gustaf.liljegren@b...]
> 
> I've heard some people say that the markup is by itself metadata, that an
> element's name is metadata, because it describes the element's content:
> 
> <reporter>    <-- This is metadata
> John Smith    <-- This is data
> </reporter>
> 
> Isn't this wrong? Comparing to what I learned from Dublin Core, metadata is
> data too. It's not just the name of a property. I'd say it's the element's
> context that decides whether <reporter> is a data or a metadata element.
> 
> <reporter>    <-- This is just the name of a property
> John Smith    <-- This may be metadata, depending on the element's context
> </reporter>
> 
> Is this the right way to think about metadata in XML?
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> The xml-dev list is sponsored by XML.org <http://www.xml.org>, an
> initiative of OASIS <http://www.oasis-open.org>
> 
> The list archives are at http://lists.xml.org/archives/xml-dev/
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe from this list use the subscription
> manager: <http://lists.xml.org/ob/adm.pl>
> 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> The xml-dev list is sponsored by XML.org <http://www.xml.org>, an
> initiative of OASIS <http://www.oasis-open.org>
> 
> The list archives are at http://lists.xml.org/archives/xml-dev/
> 
> To subscribe or unsubscribe from this list use the subscription
> manager: <http://lists.xml.org/ob/adm.pl>

begin:vcard 
n:Chiusano;Joseph
tel;work:(703) 902-6923
x-mozilla-html:FALSE
url:www.bah.com
org:Booz | Allen | Hamilton;IT Digital Strategies Team
adr:;;8283 Greensboro Drive;McLean;VA;22012;
version:2.1
email;internet:chiusano_joseph@b...
title:Senior Consultant
fn:Joseph M. Chiusano
end:vcard

• References:
  • RE: Is an element's name metadata?
    • From: Allen Razdow <arazdow@m...>

• Prev by Date: RE: Is an element's name metadata?
• Next by Date: RE: Is an element's name metadata?
• Previous by thread: RE: Is an element's name metadata?
• Next by thread: RE: Is an element's name metadata?
• Index(es):
  • Date
  • Thread