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Re: The Browser Wars are Dead! Long Live the Browser Wars!

• To: tblanchard@m...
• Subject: Re: The Browser Wars are Dead! Long Live the Browser Wars!
• From: Paul Prescod <paul@p...>
• Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 10:31:38 -0700
• Cc: xml-dev@l...
• References: <3E85C0F2-E4D5-11D6-BFB3-0030657E2F34@m...>
• User-agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X; en-US; rv:1.1) Gecko/20020826

tblanchard@m... wrote:
> 
> On Friday, October 18, 2002, at 07:59  PM, Paul Prescod wrote:
> 
>> Agreed! In fact, even well-architected desktop apps have a clear 
>> separation of concerns between the user interface, the control logic 
>> and the data. Today, it makes increasing sense to express that 
>> separation using XML over sockets (rather than putting SQL in the UI).
>>
> 
> And this is better how?  You swap one linear syntax over sockets for 
> another linear syntax over sockets and this is supposed to make it 
> elegant because its <genuflect>XML</genuflect>?  These two approaches 
> are fundamentally the same thing.

http://www.corba.ch/e/3tier.html
http://www.tanguay.info/category.aspx?s=WEB&c=3tier


 >...
>> Based on dHTML, XUL, dSVG, HTML, java, .NET? I can't predict yet. 
>> These days I'm experimenting with dynamic SVG. I'd love to see XUL 
>> standardized.
> 
> 
> No, none of these are enough (well, maybe java, only the current 
> implementations aren't up to it).  These only specify *appearances* not 
> behavior.  We want to get behavior into the UI layer.

Ummmm. Probably 70% of the web sites I interact with every day have 
client side behaviour in one of Javascript, Java or "ActionScript" (with 
the vast majority being Javascript).

>...
> Somewhere in between was a balanced approach that bound behavior with 
> data into entities we called "objects".   It is my opinion that browsers 
> need to move from glorified page layout engines with ugly scripting 
> languages towards full blown distributed object engines that happen to 
> have rich page layout capabilities.

Sure. People have been arguing that for the last ten years. I've argued 
against them on a variety of occasions but I don't have the time today.

> Let us not forget that the browser was designed to share documents.  
> Application delivery was a secondary concern and its definitely a force 
> fit.  The paradigm is wrong and switching from HTML to ZZML isn't going 
> to change that.

That's simply incorrect, and demonstrably so. XUL+Javascript allows rich 
applications to be delivered dynamically today. It isn't _standardized_, 
but it works.

  Paul Prescod

• References:
  • Re: The Browser Wars are Dead! Long Live the Browser Wars!
    • From: tblanchard@m...

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