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RE: RE: RELAX NG and type derivation [Was:] XQuery and DTD/Sch

• To: "Derek Denny-Brown" <derekdb@m...>,<xml-dev@l...>
• Subject: RE: RE: RELAX NG and type derivation [Was:] XQuery and DTD/Schema?
• From: "Michael Fitzgerald" <mike@w...>
• Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 07:41:20 -0700
• Importance: Normal
• In-reply-to: <00561A64B7757A4E9CDB78AC4471634804FA7044@r...>

You can mimic inheritance with RELAX NG. [1] Also, Murata-san has written a nice vocabulary for OO that can be transformed into RELAX NG with XSLT. [2] For a RELAX NG view on simple vs. multiple inheritance, see James Clark's design paper. [3]

Mike

[1] http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/relax-ng/200108/msg00107.html
[2] http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~eb2m-mrt/oo.html
[3] http://www.thaiopensource.com/relaxng/design.html#section:15

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Derek Denny-Brown [mailto:derekdb@m...]
> Sent: Monday, July 08, 2002 10:06 AM
> To: Michael Fitzgerald; xml-dev@l...
> Subject:  RE: RELAX NG and type derivation [Was:] XQuery and
> DTD/Schema?
> 
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> >From: Michael Fitzgerald [mailto:mike@w...] 
> >
> > RELAX NG can do type derivation by restriction, union, and list. In some
> > ways, RELAX NG's list type derivation is more powerful that XML Schema's
> > derivation.[1] All the facets that are available in XML Schema 
> are available
> > in implementations of RELAX NG. In what specific ways does RELAX NG fall
> > short in type derivation?
> 
> > As for named typing/subtyping in XML Schema, I think Murali 
> Mani's analysis
> > is worthy of consideration.[2] There he discusses implicit and explicit
> > assignment, subsumption, and even (briefly) an instanceof method a la
> > XQuery. RELAX NG does not offer named typing yet, but a 
> proposal is on the
> > table to provide it in 2.0.[3] As such it will most probably be 
> presented in
> > a module rather than added to the core specification, in 
> keeping with RELAX
> > NG's layered approach. I predict it will be a well-reasoned 
> spec that won't
> > later invoke pangs of regret and won't be unduly difficult to 
> implement or
> > use.
> 
> I was not talking about simple-type (as WXS uses the term) 
> derivation. I was talking about complex type derivation. The 
> ability to define a type 'book'
> <xs:complexType name="book">
>  <xs:sequence>
>  <xs:element name="title" type="xs:string"/>
>  <xs:element name="author" type="properName"/>
>  <xs:any minOccurs="0" maxOccurs="unbounded" namespace="##any"/>
>  <xs:element ref="chapter" maxOccurs="unbounded"/>
>  <xs:any minOccurs="0" maxOccurs="unbounded" namespace="##any"/>
>  </xs:sequence>
> </xs:complexType>
> 
> And then differentiate the sub-types via subtyping.
> <xs:element name="referenceBook">
>  <xs:complexType>
>   <xs:complexContent mixed="0">
>  <xs:restriction base="book">
>   <xs:sequence>
>   <xs:element name="title" type="xs:string"/>
>  <xs:element name="author" type="properName"/>
>  <xs:element ref="chapter" maxOccurs="unbounded"/>
>  <xs:element name="references" type="sourceReference" 
> minOccurs="0" maxOccurs="unbounded"/>
> </xs:sequence>
>  </xs:restriction>
>   </xs:complexContent>
>  </xs:complexType>
> </xs:complexType>
> 
> An application can now unambiguously query whether a given 
> element is of type 'book'. With RELAX-NG, the closest you can 
> come is to ask if an instance matches 'book', but that in now way 
> unambiguously determines whether it was intended to be considered 
> a type of book or not.
> 
> This ability to extend the type model of one schema is one of the 
> core principles behind OOP, and as such is something that people 
> want in a schema language.
> 
> Also note, that I am not even remotely defending WXS as a 
> complete, well-designed, nor elegant spec. It just is, and it 
> achieves certain things which people wanted. I am simply arguing 
> that it is not an utter failure, and that there exists nothing 
> which could fully replace it currently. There is no doubt in my 
> mind that RELAX-NG is a more elegant creation, nor that it could 
> be extended to fill the same role as WXS. The problem is that WXS 
> is already out there, and a large number of vendors are already 
> committed to it. If that is not an issue for you, use RELAX-NG. I would.
> 
> -derek
> 
> 

• References:
  • RE: RELAX NG and type derivation [Was:] XQuery and DTD/Schema?
    • From: "Derek Denny-Brown" <derekdb@m...>

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