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XML is SGML as practiced. XML stands where it stands because those standing there before it understood their problems. That is simply fact. No one's feelings are hurt by that. Some may want more credit than can be had from simple facts, but that is the politic of envy and insecurity. If their feelings are hurt by being denied this, then they have to deal with that. VB is a very successful programming language, probably the most successful one to date for all of the reasons Tim cited originally. Apply it to the wrong domain and it will fail just as applying XML to the wrong domain will fail. So will SGML, Java, C++ or an English wrench on a metric bolt. SGML will succeed in more situations but takes considerably more knowledge to apply. XML is the slow-runner approach and that is a viable approach for mass marketed technologies. My prediction is that MS-centric systems will work with .net and VB quite well. For some, that is all that will matter. For those to whom that doesn't matter, work will be more complicated. Because of C#, there are other options. Because of the framework offered, those options are numerous. I think .net will succeed and thrive. As for XML's "giant" status, one can never be great who cannot acknowledge the greatness of others to whom one owes so much. If being "great" matters, be fastidious about this. If being ubiquitous matters, one only needs a sharp sword, a strong arm, a convenient memory, and obsequious scribes. Then guards on the temple hieroglyphs for all things pass. len -----Original Message----- From: Andrzej Jan Taramina [mailto:andrzej@c...] Len said: > The success of .net will be that it has taken the > VB model and applied it to the web. That is why > it is productive. That approach might be fine for "island of automation" desktop development, but typically breaks down when faced with the realities of distributed development. Microsoft would like you to think that ignoring Peter Deustch's Fallacies of Distributed Computing is a viable development strategy. This one fact alone might doom VB in a networked world. As Amory Lovins, co-founder of the Rocky Mountain Institute, remarked, "If you don't know how things are connected, then often the cause of problems is solutions." Do you know of any mission-critical, large systems that have been written entirely in VB? Especially on the server side? Hmmmm...didn't think so. As a corollary, there is no magic bullet/tool that will take inexperienced or junior developers and make their output equivalent to an experienced person's productivity. 4GL's could be viewed as an example of this. As for which technologies matter, I concur with Tim Bray. His marginalization of SGML might rub some the wrong way, but except for a very specific problem domain, SGML hasn't had the impact nor will have the impact that XML-based technologies seem to be engendering. That is not to say that SGML is not a powerful/useful/interesting technology and that it was the foundation that XML sprung from. It's all relative, and given the comparison criteria Tim presented, XML comes out on top. However, we never need to forget that we (as technologists), and technologies themselves, all stand on the shoulders of giants. I started in computer technology in the early 70's....and I still feel that much of my work has built on what came before, both in the past and currently. I'm certain that the technology world in 2020 will be standing on the shoulders of such "giants" as Tim and others like him.
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