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[XML-DEV Mailing List Archive Home] [By Thread] [By Date] [Recent Entries] [Reply To This Message] RE: When To Use Schemas (Was RE: infinite depth to namespaces)
 I can agree with that. Teach well-formed first. The issues start because of the different backgrounds. The comment from a VP here who has preached "declarative only" for years when shown XML Schemas was "Why bother? They don't do enough." The relational expert reduced all his files to two level trees with tablenames and column elements then wanted to know how to make sure all the characters made it into the text content, say, text elements that contain ALL whitespace. As soon as one is out of well-formed, the fight starts in earnest. Oddly enough, the writers look at the DTD or schema and say, "a validator; good" and go right to using it. All of the above look at XSLT and say, "too hard!!" Those that get past that say, "hmmm... powerful stuff" except for the PERL and sed hackers who say, "too verbose" and "did this already and it was easier". I'd say, honestly and sincerely, that complexity scales to the ambitions of the user. I see it in animation where one accepts it is demanding craft or declares it "uncompelling" because it can't be done by a teenager who just learned HTML. It's easy to make an orbiting solar system with some spheres, a background, a few interpolators and some material nodes although one might have to think about how to nest the coordinate systems. On the other hand, you can't create Shrek without starting with triangles and code and hiring 300 highly paid specialists for three years. Len http://www.mp3.com/LenBullard Ekam sat.h, Vipraah bahudhaa vadanti. Daamyata. Datta. Dayadhvam.h -----Original Message----- From: John E. Simpson [mailto:simpson@p...] Sent: Sunday, September 02, 2001 6:53 PM To: xml-dev@l... Subject: Re: When To Use Schemas (Was RE: infinite depth to namespaces) At 09:26 AM 09/03/2001 +1000, Marcus Carr wrote: >...Given the question though (I'm designing my own simple XML >vocabulary, but I don't understand either DTDs or XML Schema. What can I >do?), I don't think that validation necessarily even enters the >equation. A DTD is a very useful aid to designing and maintaining an XML >vocabulary, regardless of whether it is subsequently used for >validation. Perhaps John should have asked himself a slightly different >question...:-) :) In my own defense, what I was really going on about there wasn't validation per se, the general usefulness of DTDs/schemata, and so on. It was the relentless focus on them -- as though it's impossible to do anything at all useful without them. ("The focus on DTDs and XML Schema as the hallmark of so-called real XML has done more to damage XML's widespread use and popularity [etc.]...") They're extremely useful tools once you've got the basics nailed down, but can be a stumbling block en route to that point. Not wanting to drift off into pedagogical theory or anything, but it's generally a question of deductive vs. inductive learning. Teach someone well-formed first, and teaching them valid later will be a piece of cake (especially when they ask the question themselves: "How do I assert that structure/datatype X is *required*?"). Make them learn valid first and you'll postpone their doing *anything*. It's like forcing them to attend the first half-dozen sessions of a course in Java or C++ before showing them the "Hello world!" exercise. Mostly I just wanted a question that would trigger some righteous indignation in me... even if the hypothetical newbie didn't get her actual question answered in the process! ======================================================================= John E. Simpson | "I saw a sign: 'Rest Area 25 Miles'. That's http://www.flixml.org | pretty big. Some people must be really tired." XML Q&A: www.xml.com | (Steven Wright) ----------------------------------------------------------------- The xml-dev list is sponsored by XML.org <http://www.xml.org>, an initiative of OASIS <http://www.oasis-open.org> The list archives are at http://lists.xml.org/archives/xml-dev/ To subscribe or unsubscribe from this elist use the subscription manager: <http://lists.xml.org/ob/adm.pl> 
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