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[XML-DEV Mailing List Archive Home] [By Thread] [By Date] [Recent Entries] [Reply To This Message] RE: Web service and Semantic Web
 Yes such negotiation is needed. How complex that is should be a function of the mission of the service, ontological or otherwise. Global trust systems such as described for the semantic web envisioned may be expensive to create and maintain given the political and cultural difficulties already encountered by global trading partners. There are complex interactions among the companies, the governments and the cultures of the globe. I foresee simpler systems based on local network definitions initially until we have established the reliability of the local systems. It is difficult to believe that companies that have difficulty establishing trust within and among their own divisions can open the kimono, so to speak, globally easily. Still, we seem to be setting this as a task for ourselves, so putting my trepidation aside, my intuition is: 1. Web global trust requires operational solutions. 2. Operational solutions require standard public means for establishing credibility. Ad hoc procedures are insufficient for some services. 3. Ontological services have common features that can be used to establish operational credibility. The article I cited in an earlier post on this subject described some of these features which experienced investigators critiqued as potential definitional deficiencies (e.g., hidden cycles). Creating a global ontological service will require some form of vetting. For this, a testing authority may be required. 4. The use of or mission of the service determines the level of testing required to ensure quality. We have to look at complexity problems of the service in terms of types of services and duration of service. Consider the use of the service descriptions and schema at the end of the namespace URL/URN. One might say a simple human readable description such as those that Tim Bray et al are describing are useable at the same level of business where one enters a restaurant and asks for a menu. For a complex transaction, more stringent quality requirements will be needed. In either case, the observable behaviors are described and tested. Not being familiar with the work of ebXML, I cannot comment. I think the "simple bridges to allies" concept scales and therefore, I look for tools built over simple descriptions of services that can then engage scripted service transactions. In other words, we have to look at levels of engagement as a protocol. The work at Microsoft on .Net, XLang, etc. fits the kind of framework for such services as were described in our work at General Electric Aircraft Engines in the early late eighties and early 90s. Our conclusions then were that markup based systems with public type definitions (XML Schemas were not available then, we were using SGML), and product/process models that nested and enabled the companies to use public interfaces were required. This seems to me to be exactly where MS.net is leading. We need more experience with the tools but a critical look at how the tools enable one to establish the trusted service will be the next logical step. As I said earlier, go slow and deliberately into this. We need practice. A head long rush such as the HTML experience is ill-advised. Len Bullard clbullar@i... http://www.mp3.com/LenBullard Ekam sat.h, Vipraah bahudhaa vadanti. Daamyata. Datta. Dayadhvam.h -----Original Message----- From: URAMOTO Naohiko [mailto:uramoto@t...] Len, thank you very much for your comment. > That is the credibility issue. It cannot be decided > apriori. You do as you would in a face to face negotiation > where no trusted provider (eg, a keiretsu member) already > exists (in western terms, a sole source providcer) or for > which no prior record of authority exists that attests to t > the credibility of the provider (eg, a business reference): I see. My question is does Semantic Web require a mechanism of trust establishment as well as digital signature framework. I think digital signature (and certificates from CAs) is not enough for trust establishment for assertions, and we need extra mechanism to qualify assertions scattered on the Web. If not, we might make trust network in local communities, but it is very hard to establish Web-scale trust network (which is a goal of SW), since it is (still) expensive to introduce a trust establishment system with PKI that can cover whole the Web. > 1. Discover an entity that claims to provide a service > in a claim language you recognize. This may be in response > to a query that serves the same function as a Request for .. The steps describe how to establish business trading between business entities that don't know each other. For example, tpaML (Trading Partner Agreement ML), which is discussing in the ebXML community, aims to describe terms and condition for negotiation (I heard tpaML has been renamed, but I forgot the new name). Do you think such negotiation is needed for SW? 
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