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Elliotte Rusty Harold wrote: > > >The Java Community Process is an open, inclusive process and we > >look forward to the active particpation of all interested parties. > > The process, and its relatnive openness, is a little more obvious if you > remove the passive voice. compare this: When you change it to what you wrote, it is no longer correct. Some key points: - No, Sun doesn't need to submit all JSRs. Any Participant can do so. We did for this one, to help jumpstart the process; many people want to see a Java Platform API for XML. - Yes, Sun's Program Management Office (vs. say Ken Starr) approves or rejects submitted JSRs. - No, the leader of the expert group doesn't need to be from Sun. The group formed by that leader, from the pool of volunteer experts and from external invited experts, is supposed to be a diverse cross section. This is auditable. - Re cost to be a "Participant", I had the same comment. The fee can be waived for invited experts. And note that the fee is less than an expert's time will cost -- much less! Sun is working with this process in good faith, though you seem to fear otherwise. Re other processes ... I don't think anyone's quite figured out how to make the "open source" processes drive established software companies. Like many leading companies, Sun is taking steps in that direction. But at least for this year, that isn't a useful class of processes to measure against. > >The key point is that everyone with internet access will get a > >chance to review and comment on the emerging specification. > > They can review and comment. There's no promise that > anyone will even listen to their comments, much less act on them. No, there _is_ a promise they'll be listened to; and I understand the action will at least include a response. Have you ever participated in the comment process for an IEEE spec? One submits comments, and gets formal responses. (I seem to recall it being restricted to paid-up IEEE members though.) That's the model to keep in mind -- not the "black hole" model you've described. Again, this is auditable. > There are a number of aspects of this "open" process that aren't mentioned > here. Paraphrasing points I didn't mention above: - Copyright and other Intellectual Property Rights. Hmm, wouldn't you just hate to base a product on a specification, and then find that you've got to fork over $5K/copy to use it? Have a look at what any of the "Open Source" license agreements (e.g. MPL2) say about such issues. - Derivative works. Nobody wins if people are allowed to ship things as "compatible" that really aren't; that's what the compatibility test suite is there to help ensure: "Write Once, Run Anywhere" does not come without effort, and it's a Big Deal. - Pillow talk. It's supposed to be private. - Of course non-corporate experts exist; always have, always will. And they can participate too. > To me these alone make it pretty clear, that this process is open in name > only. If you're still not convinced, ask yourself these questions: > > 1. Can anyone tell Sun No? Can anyone keep Sun from putting something into > the spec they want to put it in? Or put something in that Sun wants to keep > out? If the Expert Group disagrees with Sun's representative, that could happen. I'd hope it wouldn't -- but it could happen. > 2. Can Sun's enemies (i.e. Microsoft, HP, etc.) particpate in this process > on an equal footing with Sun? Can they even participate at all? Can those companies participate? Absolutely. Though I don't think that they've wanted to do so -- going purely by what the press has been seen to report. > Bottom line: The openness of this process is PR, pure and simple. So is that glass half full, or half empty? :-) "Openness" fits on a spectrum. I think that this process compares favorably with most other standards processes I've seen. - Dave xml-dev: A list for W3C XML Developers. To post, mailto:xml-dev@i... Archived as: http://www.lists.ic.ac.uk/hypermail/xml-dev/ and on CD-ROM/ISBN 981-02-3594-1 To (un)subscribe, mailto:majordomo@i... the following message; (un)subscribe xml-dev To subscribe to the digests, mailto:majordomo@i... the following message; subscribe xml-dev-digest List coordinator, Henry Rzepa (mailto:rzepa@i...)
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