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[XML-DEV Mailing List Archive Home] [By Thread] [By Date] [Recent Entries] [Reply To This Message] XML is boring (was Re: coming clean with the SGML crowd)
 My retitling of this message is deliberately provocative, and I do NOT wish a flame war to ensue. I want the title disproved, but by *actions and evidence*, not statements of faith. At 23:25 10/09/98 -0400, Richard L. Goerwitz III wrote: > >XML right now is, well, only slightly more than a dream. I have a hard time >even finding valid XML document instances on the net. I agree with this. Given that XML was designed for use over the Web (right?) and it has been in gestation for 2 years I find it incredible that XML has not done anything useful in public view. Lots of hype in the magazines, etc. but nothing tangible to show for it. Tangible in the sense that I can show a non-XML person something that will interest them. XML was effectively launched in Spring 1997 at WWW6, Santa Clara. It's 15 months since then and over a year since the first draft of the XLink spec was released. And as far as I can see there are virtually no useful applications that have been created. I now find it difficult to convince people that XML is useful, other than by repeatedly stating it as an act of faith. There are lots of valuable *tools* developed (many announced on this list) but is anyone actually using them publicly? [I do not get excited by statements like "Corporation X can achieve x% reduction in costs by using XML for its workflow". "We are using XML to store our configuration files, etc." It may be true, and it may be good business, but it's hardly a turnon.] XML has limitless applications. I continue to suggest them on this list - the response is underwhelming. By an application I mean "something that a non-XML expert can do something useful with". That "something" might only be to play minesweeper or whatever. At present I count the following: - MathML - IMO this is the one that has most chance of achieving critical mass. - The XSL slide processor announced on XSL lists just now. Haven't looked at it, but it sounds like an obvious and useful thing to do and my own - which I am actively building up critical mass for: - Chemical Markup Language. (http://www.xml-cml.org). It is now distributable. Henry and I are proseletising in the community, I think with some success. But the lack of other visible XML makes it very difficult. - the Virtual HyperGlossary (http://www.vhg.org.uk). This is something that couldn't be done with HTML, as it uses the hierarchical nature of XML and the additional addressing of XLink. AFAIK the only application of XML that actively uses XLink. Is no-one else interested in the power of Xlink - my own view is that it's revolutionary. The criterion for inclusion as a useful XML application is: - it must be usable over the WWW AND/OR - it must be downloadable and useful - it must do something that cannot be easily done with HTML OR - it must do something in an *immediately obviously* better way than HTML. - it must catch the imagination of someone who is not an XML expert. I have been confidently predicting that XML would take the WWW by storm during 1998. I am amazed and saddened that it hasn't done so, but there are **three months left**. I have thrown out lots of ideas on this list with virtually zero take up. Is no one else interested in: - an XML spreadsheet? - an XML drawing tool? - a collaborative XML environment? - XML games As far as I can see, most readers of this list are: - waiting for XSL because all they are interested in is rendering text with infinite precision. Worthy, but surely that's not the main point of XML. Also it's a year away. - waiting for MS/NS to come up with 'XML browsers'. Doesn't look very promising, does it? - only really interested in using XML to manage their current client business - interested in doing some in-house re-engineering. - have some medium/long-term strategy for developing products. No doubt some of these will be very exciting but I doubt they will spread a flame across the WWW. - just waiting By contrast, when Mosaic hit the WWW, within *months* I was able to: - use search engines (a completely new idea) - post requests by interactive forms (again a stunning idea) - send and display complex objects (e.g. molecules) painlessly over the WWW (again stunning). - get servers to do incredible calculations (painlessly). Much the same dynamics were seen for Java. Where are the excited XML hackers? You don't need a *browser* to do fun things. Where are the grad students (Paul Prescod doesn't count any longer :-). Isn't OASIS interested in creating a fun demo disk/CDROM to promote XML? Or am I right that XML is fundamentally about as boring as the introduction of TTL or 3-phase electricity - worthy, but manufacturer-level only? I am hoping to be inundated with mail that shows I am wrong - that I have taken a narrow view - that I don't read the newsgroups. But not mere statements of faith, please. I want something I can *show* people. In addition I would like volunteers or code to help with the collaborative project I suggested two days ago. So far the response has been underwhelming. All I need is some dumb server-side software that can keep open channels (or re-open them) between two 'players'. [Of course the application need not be just games.] This is probably so trivial to some of you that you think it's not worth offering - but I happen to be ignorant about it. P. Peter Murray-Rust, Director Virtual School of Molecular Sciences, domestic net connection VSMS http://www.nottingham.ac.uk/vsms, Virtual Hyperglossary http://www.venus.co.uk/vhg xml-dev: A list for W3C XML Developers. To post, mailto:xml-dev@i... Archived as: http://www.lists.ic.ac.uk/hypermail/xml-dev/ To (un)subscribe, mailto:majordomo@i... the following message; (un)subscribe xml-dev To subscribe to the digests, mailto:majordomo@i... the following message; subscribe xml-dev-digest List coordinator, Henry Rzepa (mailto:rzepa@i...) 
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