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RE: help request: incremental XSLT(-ish?) in javascript

• From: Thomas Lord <lord@emf.net>
• To: w3c@drrw.info
• Date: Thu, 08 Oct 2009 14:06:11 -0700

On Thu, 2009-10-08 at 13:53 -0700, w3c@drrw.info wrote:
> Thomas,

> Once the content is loaded into the DOM in the browser content it is
> fully accessible by the Javascript.


Yes, of course.   I want to have javascript programs
update the display with changes to the HTML DOM of
the page.

However, I don't want the javascript programs to touch
that DOM directly but rather through a library.

I want a second DOM around - an XML object.   The HTML
DOM for the page is related to the XML object either
literally by an XSLT script or by something similar.
When I change the *XML DOM* - I want the HTML transformed
DOM to be incrementally updated.

For example, suppose my Javascript program has requested
some resource and got back XML like:

  <books>
    <title>Gnu Emacs Manual</title>
    <title>Mathematial Logic and Programming Languages</title>
    <title>Smalltalk 80: The Language and its Implementation</title>
  </books>

and the XSLT program transforms that into any number of possible
presentations, such as:

  <ul>
    <li>Gnu Emacs Manual</li>
    ...etc...
  </ul>

I am looking for a way so that if the Javascript program modifies
the XML - say by adding an additional book - that the HTML DOM
is automagically updated, say by inserting a new "li" element
in the appropriate place.




> But it sounds like you want something that reacts to incoming events
> too - again Javascript can send and receive SOAP messages / or REST /
> for example - and update accordingly.

Yes, I know all of that.  I'm very narrowly interested
in a "missing piece" which is this incrementally updatable
XML->HTTP transform.



> This is all done already - initial xslt runs loads xml, html and
> javascript into browser - its called AJAX!


It's not.  You've misunderstood. I'm dumb as a post, I'm sure,
but I'm not *that* stupid :-)

-t



> 
> Enjoy, DW
> 
> 
>         -------- Original Message --------
>         Subject:  help request: incremental XSLT(-ish?) in
>         javascript
>         From: Thomas Lord <lord@emf.net>
>         Date: Thu, October 08, 2009 2:33 pm
>         To: xml-dev@lists.xml.org
>         
>         I am looking for a piece of software that I've
>         come to suspect doesn't exist - but I thought 
>         I'd ask here as one way to double check.
>         
>         We are used to the idea of browsers receiving
>         XML, retrieving a linked XSLT program, and applying
>         that program to produce an HTML DOM for display.
>         
>         I am wishing for taking that one step further.
>         I would like a client-side XSLT implementation
>         that does that transform, but that also keeps around
>         the XML. I would like Javascript programs to be 
>         able to modify the XML DOM objects and to have those
>         changes *incrementally* reflected in updates to 
>         the HTML DOM.
>         
>         I know that for arbitrary XSLT, such incremental 
>         transforms can not always be fast. For example,
>         it is trivial to write an XSLT program such that a
>         single character change to a text datum in the XML
>         causes the HTML to have to be completely regenerated
>         from scratch.
>         
>         I do hope for a solution where it is easy to write
>         a wide range of XSLT programs that *can* be updated
>         fast, incrementally. That is to say: I want good
>         performance in the easy cases and don't care so much
>         how the hard cases are handled.
>         
>         I would prefer XSLT but I suppose it is not essential.
>         Something similar but non-standard is OK, if that's all
>         there is.
>         
>         Why do I want this? Well:
>         
>         I would like to build a system that roughly follows
>         a "model-view-controller" pattern. The XML will 
>         serve as model. The HTML and some event handling hooks
>         will serve as view. The main logic of an application
>         are the commands (in Javascript) that the view can 
>         trigger and which operate by having side effects on
>         the XML (the model) - that "command system" of the 
>         application is the controller.
>         
>         Is there such a piece of software around (that is
>         licensed as free software)? My impression is that
>         there is not - which I find somewhat surprising.
>         
>         Finally, one person I mentioned this to admonished me
>         that I was proposing to use XSLT and Javascript in ways
>         they were never intended for and were ill suited for.
>         I could not get a clear sense from him of *why* he 
>         thought so, but that is what he said. Is he right?
>         
>         Thanks,
>         -t
>         
>         
>         
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• Follow-Ups:
  • RE: help request: incremental XSLT(-ish?) in javascript
    • From: "Michael Kay" <mike@saxonica.com>

• References:
  • RE: help request: incremental =?UTF-8?Q?XSLT=28-ish=3F=29=20in?==?UTF-8?Q?=20javascript?=
    • From: w3c@drrw.info