RE: killing xslt
Hey Pieter (and the rest of the XSL-List community), My spam filter seems to kill the craziest of correspondence. That will be changing as I am bringing all of my email servers in-house and will be using a much more reliable email server and spam softwar. You can try m.davidATmdptwsDOTcom but to ensure you get through use mdptwsATmsnDOTcom I sent this reply back through the list because there is some feedback that I feel we need to get from the group regarding whether or not this project should go as far as trying to both port Saxon in its current state while trying to make the project be 100% XSLT 2.0 compliant by adding the Schema support as well. I realize this is getting a bit ahead of things but I feel it's a very important issue that I think we should have an answer to before we get so far into the project that we forget to come back to the list to discuss this particular issue. My reasoning for taking a cautious approach is simple. If I understand correctly there is going to be a commercial release of Saxon 7.9.x that will include the Schema support of the XSLT 2.0 spec. As such, out of respect to Michael Kay and the simple fact that this is his brainchild, his blood, his sweat, and his tears of many, many, combined years I think we owe it to him to get his nod of approval before moving forward with taking it to that level. I hate to get to far ahead of myself and worry about things that are most likely several months (at very least) down the road but I think its something that needs to be brought up in the beginning so that we can get some feedback as to whether this is an area that should be left alone allowing those who are creating the commercial version of Saxon (I am assuming this is something that Michael will be a part or has already given his blessing on) in its current Java state to also be given the courtesy of converting the .NET port into a commercial version that has the Schema support. ***Thoughts from the rest of the group members?*** Again, maybe Im just being over cautious but I would rather be over cautious than make the mistake of not getting permission to extend this project into areas that have obviously already been ear marked for a commercial version of the Java source code and therefore something that was not intended to be a part of the open source project. To once again look for additional support, anyone else interested in helping out with this project please contact Pieter at mailATpietsiegDOTcom. I should also point out that Dave Pawson offered to post a "call for effort" on his highly visited/read xsl-faq which would be a tremendous way to rally further support especially as the project gets into the fine tuning and massaging of the code base to take advantage of the .NET platform and the differences it has between the Java platform. As you said it would be lovely to get absolute precision from the Beta of version 3 of the Java to C#/.NET conversion tool but highly unlikely and therefore this will require the artisan style craftsmanship of several developers if we want to get a release out to the public within a timely manner. *** To Dave Pawson: Is this offer still valid? If so then I will leave it up to Pieter to make contact with you regarding the details. In that the only other response regarding what domain name to use has come from Pieter (just got your email Pieter, will be responding shortly) it has been decided to utilize http://www.X2X2X.org which, again, represents XSLT 2.0, XPath 2.0, and XQuery and is meant to represent the fact that all three of these technologies have there place in the transformation and querying of XML data (two VERY different things which should never be mistaken as being indistinguishable from each other... one Queries XML data using SQL like syntax which in turn returns a subset of the XML data to then be further processed... and one way to process it would be to transform it into something else, like HTML to be read in a browser. Any questions? (yes, that was meant to be a smart mouth comment but apparently not everyone playing the game understands that there is a difference so I thought it best to clarify for their benefit ;) It's all about the love baby... all about the love :D Can you feel it? :)))) Alright, moving on... Ive set up email aliases for this domain but they wont be live until the MX records get updated to the zone file records across the net so I will hold off and publish these to the list when they are live and available for general use. Best regards to all! <M:D/> > -----Original Message----- > From: Pieter Reint Siegers Kort [mailto:pieter.siegers@xxxxxxxxxxx] > Sent: Monday, May 17, 2004 10:28 AM > To: xsl-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: RE: killing xslt > > Great! :-) That makes two on the team sofar. The call for more help is > still > open (mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx). > > M. David, please restate your email as I tried to mail you off this list > as > this is really OT, but the message couldn't be delivered. Tried twice. I > apoligize. > > Cheers, > <prs/> > > -----Original Message----- > From: M. David Peterson [mailto:m.david@xxxxxxxxxx] > Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 9:48 PM > To: xsl-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: RE: killing xslt > > My apologies for being slow to respond back to your call out Pieter. I > just > returned from Denver a day later than planned and am now catching up on > email. > > I too have offered both server and development support for this project on > a > thread separate from this. I had intended to spend this weekend using the > conversion tool to transform the latest 7.9.x Saxon source. > But it seems silly to not first get all interested together, synched up, > and > a plan put into place. Would also like to see what type of feedback we > can > get from Michael Kay regarding his thoughts about the effort that would be > needed to make the port as well as any problems or issues that he feels we > may encounter during the process. Going into the project armed with as > much > information as possible would obviously give us an edge during the > conversion. > > I will contact you using the email you published on this thread. But I > will > use thread to encourage further the need for support for a project like > this. Being away from my computer for a bit and being able to put quite a > bit of thought into the occurrences of the last few days has led me to > believe that the most important thing that needs to be done is to look at > every possible solution that we as developers have to solve our > development > problems. As such it is going to be just as important for us to try and > look at the code necessary to solve various common transformations AS WELL > AS querys to access a particular subset of data from both XML and SQL > sources. It seems that if we put the time into trying out every proposed > combination of solutions we will be much better informed to make a final > position on whether or not XSLT 2.0 support on .NET is something that is > as > important as we believe it is. > Having the ability to transform XSLT 2.0 code on .NET is obviously very > crucial to developing the data to make an accurate and well informed > decision either way. > > I have quite a few URL's that I have registered over the years and a month > or two ago I registered the .COM.NET.ORG for X2X2X which I was using to > represent XSLT 2.0 XPath 2.0 and XQuery and have plans to use the .COM > version of the domain to act as the web front end version of a book I have > planned that covers all three of these languages and solutions that use > the > power given to us by all 3 to solve the development scenarios that we as > developers are faced with on a day-to-day basis. The .ORG version as of > yet > has no plans for use and as such may act as a good interface to an the > organization of developers of whom plan to use these technologies in there > development and are willing help with the effort to build a common tool > bag > for all of us to benefit from. > > Any one else out there willing to help with the various aspects of this > proposed project? No need for multiple people fielding responses so Ill > just republish the Pieter's email and allow him to continue with > coordinating this effort. > > mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx > > Other than making a final determination as to what domain name seems > appropriate (would be difficult to use an alias to communicate that hasn't > been created :) it seems that from here on out we should probably take the > communication about this project through a separate alias as this thread > has > definitely gone past the intended purpose of this list to support actual > development using XSLT. Once we have determined what domain name seems > appropriate then we can post it back to the list to let people know where > to > go to offer support, communicate about the project, etc.... > > Comments regarding the domain name to use? > > Again Pieter, I will contact you via your posted email to discuss the next > step in the proposed effort. > > Best regards, > > <M:D/> > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Pieter Reint Siegers Kort [mailto:pieter.siegers@xxxxxxxxxxx] > > Sent: Saturday, May 15, 2004 12:40 PM > > To: xsl-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > > Subject: RE: killing xslt > > > > Well, fully implemented or not, the idea of this project is to see if > the > > switch to C# using MS own Java to C# converter utility could be a > feasible > > one. > > > > One step I didn't include was the next one: implement more XSLT 2.0, > Xpath > > 2.0, and XQuery 1.0 support as time goes by. But that's afterwards, if > you > > know what I mean... first look if it's something worth the time and > > trouble. > > > > I am still open to start the project; I'll at least try the utility > and > > see > > what quality of C# comes out, and what kind of problems are raised by > the > > utility. > > > > If somebody else feels kind of in for this project, pls. let me know > > (mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx). > > > > <prs/> > > http://www.pietsieg.com > > http://www.pietsieg.com/dotnetnuke > > > > Contributor to ASPToday.com: > http://www.asptoday.com/Authors.aspx?ID=101 > > Co-author of "Professional ASP.NET XML With C#", July 2002 Wrox Press > (now > > Wiley's) > > > > My own XQuery resources: > > http://www.pietsieg.com/sections/XQuery/ArtXQueryBeg.aspx > > http://www.topxml.com/xquery/default.asp > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Bob Foster [mailto:bob@xxxxxxxxxx] > > Sent: Friday, May 14, 2004 11:40 PM > > To: xsl-list@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > > Subject: Re: killing xslt > > > > Pieter Reint Siegers Kort wrote: > > > Like David, I would be interested in setting up an open source > project > > > but would prefer using C#, VS.NET 2003, to do the port from Saxon > > > 7.9.1. Not on my own, of course... :-) > > > > That does sound interesting and eminently doable. > > > > However, Saxon 7.9.1 is not XSLT 2.0. Specifically, it does not have > > validation and the strong type assignment that results from > validation. > > To quote the website: "A schema-aware version of the product is > planned: > > this will be a commercial product available from Saxonica Limited." > > > > I don't know exactly how this would affect the ability to deliver a > fully > > functional XSLT 2.0 for .NET based on Saxon. > > > > Bob Foster > > http://xmlbuddy.com/
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