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[XML-DEV Mailing List Archive Home] [By Thread] [By Date] [Recent Entries] [Reply To This Message] Re: XQuery 2019 IMap
 > On Sat, Jan 5, 2019 at 2:23 PM Liam R. E. Quin <liam@fromoldbooks.org> wrote: > Possible ways forward include a W3C community group, if you want to be > able to reawaken the XQuery Working Group (and presumably the XSLT > Working Group); an external-to-W3C organization (Oasis? or something > ad-hoc?). Reflecting on the work on XSLT, the XSLT 3.0 Specification stopped short "in the middle of the road" and there are a number of unfinished or new language features that would follow naturally, hadn't the WG been abruptly dissolved. Just to name a few: - Streaming is implemented only on input documents but not on output/intermediate ones - Tuples - Type aliases - Concurrency Even if Saxon could provide some of these as future extensions, this would reflect a single-minded point of view -- far from a rounded and thoughtful result of the clashes of minds emerging from different perspectives. We need a continued standardization effort -- be it in W3C or within another body -- in order to bring the work to its logical, complete and beautiful ending. The current situation reminds us that any tool, such as Divide and Conquer, can be used not only for reaching positive outcomes. Cheers, Dimitre On Sat, Jan 5, 2019 at 2:23 PM Liam R. E. Quin <liam@fromoldbooks.org> wrote: > > On Sat, 2019-01-05 at 10:23 +0000, Hans-Juergen Rennau wrote: > > Hello, hello, has anybody the postal address of Sir Tim Berners-Lee? > > I want to write him a letter, expressing my disappointment. I shall > > not mince words, trusting that truly great minds are not touchy. I > > want to ask - how can the closing of the XQuery Working Group be > > explained, if not by a headstrong refusal to think deeply? > > It can be explained because the Working Group was down to very few > active participants. The W3C work is funded by Members joining W3C and > sending people to the Working Groups. So if Members don't go, the work > ends. The decision to close the Working Group wasn't Tim's, as it > happens. > > > "XQuery" is a double lie - it is not about > > XML, and it is not a query language. It is about mapping information. > > Although i agree with you about mapping information, the word lie is > perhaps a little loaded. > > At one point i tried to push for a different name; perhaps unexcitingly > i think i suggested fast forest, and for people to talk about forest > stores rather than XML databases. But there was considerable push-back > from the Working Group. > > [...] > > > True, the generalization from XML to Information is still rudimentary > > In general i think of XML as being an information representation > syntax; as RDF as being a knowledge representation model (in the sense > of 1970s and 1980s expert systems); of JSON as being an intechange > syntax for data and (less happily) configurations. But these are only > approximate, not clear boundaries. > > An advantage of a syntax-based representation is that there's no single > fixed way to parse XML: you can build any number of data structures. > It's perfectly acceptable to read an SVG image and construct a colour > pallette, not the actual image. > > > - we need standardized parsing of non-XML resources into XDM node > > trees. > > Do we? Well, we have some ways to get from JSON to XDM in the XPath 3.1 > Functions and Operators book. > > > True, the sister paradigm of information structure, graph, is still > > not supported natively - it should be integrated into the XDM (adding > > RDF triples and RDF datasets) as well as the expression language > > (adding SPARQL expressions). > > Once you go here i think you have indeed left behind the X. > > > But these shortcomings just point to the need of an XQuery Working > > Group - for a continuation of the journey from XQuery to IMap.. > > (IMAP itself as a name is already in use for email, of course; i'm not > sure whether that matters) > > Possible ways forward include a W3C community group, if you want to be > able to reawaken the XQuery Working Group (and presumably the XSLT > Working Group); an external-to-W3C organization (Oasis? or something > ad-hoc?). > > But i think really what you have to show is not only excitement about > technical possibilities but how your proposal would answer business > objectives: > * do something you couldn't do before; > * do something you are already doing, but more cheaply > * do something you are already doing, but faster > * do something you are already doing, but more reliably > and so on. This is the kind of story that attracts funding and > interest. > > Liam > > > -- > Liam Quin - http://delightfulcomputing.com/ > web slave for https://www.fromoldbooks.org/ > with fabulous vintage art and fascinating texts to read. > > > _______________________________________________________________________ > > XML-DEV is a publicly archived, unmoderated list hosted by OASIS > to support XML implementation and development. To minimize > spam in the archives, you must subscribe before posting. > > [Un]Subscribe/change address: http://www.oasis-open.org/mlmanage/ > Or unsubscribe: xml-dev-unsubscribe@lists.xml.org > subscribe: xml-dev-subscribe@lists.xml.org > List archive: http://lists.xml.org/archives/xml-dev/ > List Guidelines: http://www.oasis-open.org/maillists/guidelines.php > -- Cheers, Dimitre Novatchev --------------------------------------- Truly great madness cannot be achieved without significant intelligence. --------------------------------------- To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk ------------------------------------- Never fight an inanimate object ------------------------------------- To avoid situations in which you might make mistakes may be the biggest mistake of all ------------------------------------ Quality means doing it right when no one is looking. ------------------------------------- You've achieved success in your field when you don't know whether what you're doing is work or play ------------------------------------- To achieve the impossible dream, try going to sleep. ------------------------------------- Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. ------------------------------------- Typing monkeys will write all Shakespeare's works in 200yrs.Will they write all patents, too? :) ------------------------------------- Sanity is madness put to good use. ------------------------------------- I finally figured out the only reason to be alive is to enjoy it. 
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