[XML-DEV Mailing List Archive Home] [By Thread] [By Date] [Recent Entries] [Reply To This Message] Re: [OT] Re: Lessons learned from the XML experiment
On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 4:27 PM, Uche Ogbuji <uche@ogbuji.net> wrote: > On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 9:04 AM, David Sheets <kosmo.zb@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 3:57 PM, Uche Ogbuji <uche@ogbuji.net> wrote: >> > On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 8:46 AM, David Sheets <kosmo.zb@gmail.com> >> > wrote: >> >> >> >> On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 3:39 PM, Uche Ogbuji <uche@ogbuji.net> wrote: >> >> > On Fri, Nov 15, 2013 at 8:34 AM, David Sheets <kosmo.zb@gmail.com> >> >> > So why are you using XML again? >> >> >> >> This is a general question: are null-terminated strings the right >> >> representation for transmitting binary blobs? >> >> >> >> Why not? >> > >> > >> > Your question nails it in an unintended way. I was clearly talking about >> > text. You are talking about null-terminated strings and BLOBs. There is >> > a >> > very big and important difference. >> >> I'm talking about type errors of which both this SOAP example and my >> example are instances. > > > Exactly. > > >> > And no, I do not believe that text technologies are right for >> > transmitting >> > either null-terminated strings or BLOBs. Why not? Because they're not >> > designed for it. You can start learning how so by trying to put a >> > null-terminated string into XML. >> >> Perhaps using text to transmit the concept of "null" is also >> ill-advised... > > > Exactly. > > >> >> >> If I decided to use null-terminated strings to transmit a binary blob, >> >> would it be a "C WTF"? >> > >> > >> > Of course not, because C is designed for that. >> >> And XML is designed for nodes. > > > Absolutely not! Could you expand on this? Perhaps you could tell us about the data model of XML? >> >> The data model designer did not use a >> <null> element or take the absence of an element to be a null value, >> instead they chose to overload the meaning of a piece of plain text. > > > Yes, because they are using a system that muddles the layers between text > and data. > > >> >> > From the "null terminated strings" bit and this one, I can tell your >> > viewpoint on this is very programmer-literal, and so we're on very >> > different >> > worlds in taking lessons from that situation. >> >> I think programmers should design data formats for programs to read >> and write, yes. I'm not sure what else you feel you can glean of my >> viewpoint. What else do you think I think? > > > I think you think I wonder what you think. When you make suppositions regarding my worldview, if they are to be taken as evidence, you should be clear about what you are assuming. >> >> > So the answer is no that's >> > not what I'm saying, but Ive already said what I'm saying. >> >> Sorry, I'm still not understanding. You appear to be saying that this >> SOAP difficulty is a classic "XML WTF" that is attributable to being >> too concerned with typing at the expense of text. Could you perhaps >> lay out a series of inferences that lead you to this conclusion? >> >> I'm having a hard time following your train of thought. > > > Exactly. This did not help. Could you please lay out your argument for why XML or its data model are behind this particular problem with SOAP? Thanks, David Sheets > -- > Uche Ogbuji http://uche.ogbuji.net > Founding Partner, Zepheira http://zepheira.com > Author, Ndewo, Colorado http://uche.ogbuji.net/ndewo/ > Founding editor, Kin Poetry Journal http://wearekin.org > Editor & Contributor, TNB > http://www.thenervousbreakdown.com/author/uogbuji/ > http://copia.ogbuji.net http://www.linkedin.com/in/ucheogbuji > http://twitter.com/uogbuji
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