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RE: XML Conference archives

• From: "Len Bullard" <Len.Bullard@ses-i.com>
• To: "John Cowan" <cowan@mercury.ccil.org>
• Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2012 15:41:52 -0500

"the employee's affidavit contained both hearsay and inconclusive #
supporting statements, and the purported webpage printouts themselves #
were not self-authenticating."

Thanks John.   I wonder how much stronger the resources would be if they
were semantic web constructs.  If the content contained hearsay, I
understand the ruling.  Not being "self-authenticating" is dodgy in that
all it seems to imply is the resource is not "authoritative".   The
notion of "self authentication" is ???

len

-----Original Message-----
From: John Cowan [mailto:cowan@ccil.org] On Behalf Of John Cowan
Sent: Monday, June 04, 2012 2:18 PM
To: Len Bullard
Cc: xml-dev@lists.xml.org
Subject: Re:  XML Conference archives

Len Bullard scripsit:

> The reasoning for that decision is of interest.  Was it based on lack
> of provability or traceability of the resources or the timestamp?
> This might be a precedent for other copyright claims.

Quoth Wikipedia:

# In an October 2004 case called "Telewizja Polska SA v. Echostar
# Satellite", a litigant attempted to use the Wayback Machine archives
as
# a source of admissible evidence, perhaps for the first time. Telewizja
# Polska is the provider of TVP Polonia and EchoStar operates the Dish
# Network. Prior to the trial proceedings, EchoStar indicated that
# it intended to offer Wayback Machine snapshots as proof of the past
# content of Telewizja Polska's website. Telewizja Polska brought a
# motion in limine to suppress the snapshots on the grounds of hearsay
# and unauthenticated source, but Magistrate Judge Arlander Keys
rejected
# Telewizja Polska's assertion of hearsay and denied TVP's motion in
# limine to exclude the evidence at trial.[14] However, at the actual
# trial, district Court Judge Ronald Guzman, the trial judge, overruled
# Magistrate Keys' findings, and held that neither the affidavit of the
# Internet Archive employee nor the underlying pages (i.e., the
Telewizja
# Polska website) were admissible as evidence. Judge Guzman reasoned
# that the employee's affidavit contained both hearsay and inconclusive
# supporting statements, and the purported webpage printouts themselves
# were not self-authenticating.

Citation to http://tinyurl.com/84ldxbl (PDF), which I have not read.

-- 
Dream projects long deferred             John Cowan <cowan@ccil.org>
usually bite the wax tadpole.            http://www.ccil.org/~cowan
        --James Lileks

• Follow-Ups:
  • Re: XML Conference archives
    • From: John Cowan <cowan@mercury.ccil.org>
  • Re: XML Conference archives
    • From: Frank Richards <frank@therichards.org>

• References:
  • XML Conference archives
    • From: ht@inf.ed.ac.uk (Henry S. Thompson)
  • Re: XML Conference archives
    • From: John Cowan <cowan@mercury.ccil.org>
  • Re: XML Conference archives
    • From: ht@inf.ed.ac.uk (Henry S. Thompson)
  • Re: XML Conference archives
    • From: John Cowan <cowan@mercury.ccil.org>
  • RE: XML Conference archives
    • From: "Len Bullard" <Len.Bullard@ses-i.com>
  • Re: XML Conference archives
    • From: John Cowan <cowan@mercury.ccil.org>