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RE: "Introducing MicroXML, Part 1: Explore the basic principle

• From: "Len Bullard" <Len.Bullard@ses-i.com>
• To: "Michael Kay" <mike@saxonica.com>,<xml-dev@l...>
• Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2012 10:06:10 -0500

Yep.  

On the other hand, depending on where you want the information to be
contained, several systems close to what Peter describes still exist and
they get around the XML lack of semantics by ... not using XML
precisely. 
XML is a syntax specification and one way to do it is to not use XML
syntax.   Another way is to use namespaces I suppose.    

For example:

<?BUTTON POS='12' PUSH='1' show='Y' LABEL='RPSTL' TYPE='PROGRAM'
LINK='rpstl_r.exe TM_1-1520-237-23P -F 1-2,0' BITMAP='Y'
BITFILE='..\..\graphics\RPSTL.BMP' DESC='RPSTL'?>

Which enables them to take any XML and sprinkle controls, hyperlinks,
etc. liberally.   It's old school but it solved the problems of keeping
the application development on schedule without contending with the
LinkWars.

What gets ugly (and this is where Peter has a point) is some XML does
have other relationships

<extref push="1" color="blue" href="..\..\RPSTL\RpstlCover.xml"
docno="TM 1-1520-237-23P" />.

And the rendering/navigating application has to account for these as
well.

One problem is the files treated to the sprinkling become a sort of
lobster trap.  Having recently stripped one of the information to return
it to the linkless state for reuse, it is a minor PIA.  

How useful what Peter is proposing is depends on the use cases.
Redundant but so.  All of these application approaches frustrate the
browser designer who wants to, as Goldfarb put it, "own the parse".

len


-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Kay [mailto:mike@saxonica.com] 
Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 9:37 AM
To: xml-dev@lists.xml.org
Subject: Re:  "Introducing MicroXML, Part 1: Explore the basic
principles of MicroXML"


 >Here is where I think you will find the crux of the disagreement.

Indeed. The question is whether hyperlinks belong in layer 6 or layer 7.

The core XML specification belongs in layer 6, and should not be 
polluted with stuff that has layer 7 semantics (like xml;lang). Of 
course, XML browsers are free to recognize the layer 7 semantics of 
particular namespaces if they choose.

I think the hyperlinking community has never been prepared to make a 
proper separation between the information content of a link and its 
presentation semantics. That is why it is has been so hard to integrate 
hyperlinks into XML, which requires that separation.

Michael Kay
Saxonica

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• Follow-Ups:
  • RE: "Introducing MicroXML, Part 1: Explore the basic principles of MicroXML"
    • From: "Len Bullard" <Len.Bullard@ses-i.com>

• References:
  • RE: "Introducing MicroXML, Part 1: Explore the basicprinciples of MicroXML"
    • From: "Rushforth, Peter" <Peter.Rushforth@NRCan-RNCan.gc.ca>
  • Re: "Introducing MicroXML, Part 1: Explore the basicprinciples of MicroXML"
    • From: Andrew Welch <andrew.j.welch@gmail.com>
  • RE: "Introducing MicroXML, Part 1: Explore the basicprinciples of MicroXML"
    • From: "Rushforth, Peter" <Peter.Rushforth@NRCan-RNCan.gc.ca>
  • Re: "Introducing MicroXML, Part 1: Explore the basicprinciples of MicroXML"
    • From: Andrew Welch <andrew.j.welch@gmail.com>
  • RE: "Introducing MicroXML, Part 1: Explore the basicprinciples of MicroXML"
    • From: "Rushforth, Peter" <Peter.Rushforth@NRCan-RNCan.gc.ca>
  • RE: "Introducing MicroXML, Part 1: Explore the basicprinciples of MicroXML"
    • From: David Lee <dlee@calldei.com>
  • Re: "Introducing MicroXML, Part 1: Explore the basic principlesof MicroXML"
    • From: Michael Kay <mike@saxonica.com>