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RE: XML support in browsers?

• From: "Jim Tivy" <jimt@bluestream.com>
• To: "'Robert Koberg'" <rob@koberg.com>
• Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 11:37:19 -0700

The time has come," the Walrus said,
"To talk of many things:..." Lewis Carroll.

There seem to be a number of issues here:

1. How prevalent is the use of JSON vs Xml for a client(browser)/server data
format.
2. In the Xml case, how many javascript programmers use DOM vs XSLT.

My perception was that many are using AJAX where X is Xml.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ajax_(programming)?

Here is a simple comparison:

http://www.quirksmode.org/blog/archives/2005/12/the_ajax_respon.html

I would be surprised if in the XML users XSLT has more than 5% with DOM
having the rest. Of course, data here would help...

However, I think that since XML may have a high percentage in the JSON/XML
split, and since XSLT is the most significant "XML processing language" I
know of, then XSLT is a reasonable approach and we should make sure it works
on the client in and out of the javascript environment.

On the comment of whether XSLT is "despised" by these client/server
developers - I would neutralize the language a bit, but I agree that many
developers using imperative languages do not choose to use XSLT for a number
of reasons - but to discuss properly deserves another thread. 

Jim

-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Koberg [mailto:rob@koberg.com] 
Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 12:40 PM
To: Dan Vint
Cc: Michael Kay; xml-dev@lists.xml.org
Subject: Re:  XML support in browsers?


On Jun 5, 2009, at 3:07 PM, Dan Vint wrote:

> Thanks I don't really need to serve the content this way and I don't  
> have control of the server side. My audience is wide so I need to  
> consider if I want to cut some one off. By serving the content  
> dynamically I can save some trouble the next time I update the  
> presentation, but its not a show stopper if I have to do it this way.
>
> Do people agree with Peter Hunsberger in that:
>
> "I think the industry has somewhat decided to ignore client side  
> XSLT and moved on. "

Unfortunately, I would agree that XSL is ignored (despised?). I  
wouldn't say they moved on because they were never there. JSON has a  
better story in that you can cross domains easily and can be used with  
simple JS programming.


>
>
> Wouldn't web search and other functionality be better if we didn't  
> have presentation based content as the main source on the web?

I am not sure what you mean here, but google is built to understand  
HTML in the wild.

-Rob

>
>
> ..dan
>
> At 02:12 PM 6/5/2009, Michael Kay wrote:
>> I should imagine the vast majority of people with a computer that  
>> has been
>> purchased or updated in the last five years will have no difficulty
>> displaying web pages that rely on client-side XSLT 1.0 support in the
>> browser.
>>
>> If your target audience includes mobile devices, or people with  
>> ancient
>> computers (e.g. the elderly at home, third-world countries, or  
>> underfunded
>> schools or charities) then you might still have a few problems.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Michael Kay
>> http://www.saxonica.com/
>> http://twitter.com/michaelhkay
>>
>>
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Dan Vint [mailto:dvint@dvint.com]
>> > Sent: 05 June 2009 18:55
>> > To: xml-dev@lists.xml.org
>> > Subject:  XML support in browsers?
>> >
>> > What is the state of using XML (not xhtml) and xslt
>> > stylesheets to serve up documents on the client side with a
>> > browser? I'm refactoring a website of mine to manage the
>> > content in XML.
>> >
>> > I'll be building some XSLT to produce XHTML from this
>> > content, I was just wondering if it is safe to serve the XML
>> > directly or should I just generate static XHTML and place
>> > that on the server?
>> >
>> > I'm suspecting that the older browsers are still out there
>> > and that my answer is going to be use the static HTML.
>> > Assuming that, any speculation on when we might be able to do
>> > this? Is there interest in the industry to do this?
>> >
>> > ..dan
>> > --------------------------------------------------------------
>> > -------------
>> > Danny Vint
>> >
>> > Panoramic Photography
>> > http://www.dvint.com
>> >
>> > voice: 502-749-6179
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ______________________________________________________________
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>
>
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Danny Vint
>
> Panoramic Photography
> http://www.dvint.com
>
> voice: 502-749-6179
>
>
> _______________________________________________________________________
>
> XML-DEV is a publicly archived, unmoderated list hosted by OASIS
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• Follow-Ups:
  • RE: XML support in browsers?
    • From: "Michael Kay" <mike@saxonica.com>
  • Re: XML support in browsers?
    • From: Robert Koberg <rob@koberg.com>

• References:
  • XML support in browsers?
    • From: Dan Vint <dvint@dvint.com>
  • RE: XML support in browsers?
    • From: "Michael Kay" <mike@saxonica.com>
  • RE: XML support in browsers?
    • From: Dan Vint <dvint@dvint.com>
  • Re: XML support in browsers?
    • From: Robert Koberg <rob@koberg.com>