[XML-DEV Mailing List Archive Home] [By Thread] [By Date] [Recent Entries] [Reply To This Message]

Re: Python and JSON vs XML???


Re:  Python and JSON vs XML???
Who _hasn't_ designed a text based data representation language? ;-}

It would be interesting to collect these designs and examine them for 
common characteristics. Some features of my last effort that I suspect 
would appear in a number of others:

- No attributes and no "normalization".
- No DTDs or entities.
- Use of brackets { [ ] } etc. instead of end tags.
- Sequences (a la XQuery) at the document level.
- Parse much faster than XML (of course).

Bob Foster
http://xmlbuddy.com/

Pete Cordell wrote:
 > FWIW - I've also developed a text based data representation language,
 > including on the wire format and, more significantly from what I have
 > seen of other proposals, a message specification language.
 >
 > I lowered the priority on it because the force behind XML and XML Schema
 > seemed to huge too compete against (Betamax / VHS type arguments etc.)
 > Whether the observations made below represent a genuine move away from
 > XML, or represent a small pocket of newly discovered dissenters I don't
 > know. Personally,  in the data representation space I find that
 > commercially I'm interested in XML Schema being successful, but
 > aesthetically it would be nice for something like my proposal to be
 > successful.
 >
 > I targetted this at the IETF, but at the time they seemed to be going
 > the W3C schema route.  Maybe I should knock on their door again!
 >
 > For those interested in more, I call it Lumas (Language for Universal
 > Message Abstraction and Specification) and there is a taster at:
 >
 > http://tech-know-ware.com/lumas/lumas-example.html
 >
 > and a spec at:
 >
 > ftp://ftp.isi.edu/internet-drafts/draft-cordell-lumas-03.txt
 >
 > Pete.
 > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Champion"
 > <michaelc.champion@g...>
 > To: "XML Developers List" <xml-dev@l...>
 > Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 8:04 AM
 > Subject:  Python and JSON vs XML???
 >
 >
 > I note with interest that the world seems to be going in several
 > directions at once with respect to the relationship between
 > programming language objects and XML.
 > For some time now we've seen the JSON "fat-free alternative to XML"
 > http://www.crockford.com/JSON/xml.html direction that some in the AJAX
 > world are taking to address both XML's inefficiency and the mismatch
 > with programming languages.    Now I see that many in the Python
 > community have a similar attitude toward XML
 > http://www.xml.com/pub/a/2005/08/24/py-xml.html  and encourage its use
 > only when necessary to exchange data with non-Python apps.
 >
 > W3C seems to be going in a more conventional direction,  thinking
 > about a working group to define schema patterns for databinding
 > http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-ws/2005Jul/0000.html
 > Likewise it is wrestling (behind the member-only firewall, sorry) with
 > the results of the XML Binary Characterization working group's
 > suggestion to standardize a binary XML format to address XML's
 > perceived inefficiency as a data interchange format in some scenarios.
 >
 > It might be inferred from
 > http://www.microsoft-watch.com/article2/0,2180,1837433,00.asp and
 > http://commnet.microsoftpdc.com/content/sessions.aspx (query for
 > "XML") that Microsoft is addressing the programming - XML mismatch not
 > by moving away from XML but by supporting XML-friendly concepts deeper
 > in programming languages.  (Details will be announced at PDC, until
 > then ask me no questions and I'll tell you no lies).
 >
 > I'm not sure what to make of all this, other than that there is a lot
 > of dissatisfaction with the status quo with respect to XML and
 > programming, and a lot of experimentation going on to address it.
 > Some approaches might threaten XML's story as a universal data
 > interchange format, or might revitalize it by scraping off the cruft,
 > we shall see.  A few questions I'd be interested in hearing others'
 > take on:
 >
 > -  I'm trying to understand whether JSON has a value proposition
 > outside of AJAX scenarios. Is JSON or Python  significantly faster to
 > parse into usable objects than data-bound XML?   Is anyone suggesting
 > it (or some Pythonic equivalent) to address the types of use cases
 > that binary XML is targeted at?
 >
 > - Could something like JSON become Yet Another Infoset Serialization
 > Format You Have To Deal With if binary XML gets momentum and opens up
 > the possibility of alternative serializations for different
 > environments? Or is it just conceptually easier to deal with a single
 > object syntax rather than fooling with XML when you have the luxury of
 > working in the same dynamic language in all parts of a system, so and
 > this really isn't a threat to XML's value proposition?
 >
 > - The idea of programming languages in XML syntax seems to be on the
 > wane (other than XSLT of course, which is not *really* a programming
 > lanuage even if it is Turing-complete).  The idea of integrating XML
 > ideas into programming languge syntax seems to be on the rise,  e.g.
 > the JSON and Python stuff, E4X, C-omega and friends, Java's apparent
 > plans in the Dolphin release, etc.  Anyone disagree?
 >
 > - What happened to the "XML is text, dammit" advocates who used to
 > rant about how all this is misguided nonsense?  Quietly getting their
 > work done, obliviously watching TV in the retirement home, lurking
 > patiently to say "I TOLD YOU SO" when the smelly stuff hits the fan,
 > or what?


PURCHASE STYLUS STUDIO ONLINE TODAY!

Purchasing Stylus Studio from our online shop is Easy, Secure and Value Priced!

Buy Stylus Studio Now

Download The World's Best XML IDE!

Accelerate XML development with our award-winning XML IDE - Download a free trial today!

Don't miss another message! Subscribe to this list today.
Email
First Name
Last Name
Company
Subscribe in XML format
RSS 2.0
Atom 0.3
 

Stylus Studio has published XML-DEV in RSS and ATOM formats, enabling users to easily subcribe to the list from their preferred news reader application.


Stylus Studio Sponsored Links are added links designed to provide related and additional information to the visitors of this website. they were not included by the author in the initial post. To view the content without the Sponsor Links please click here.

Site Map | Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Trademarks
Free Stylus Studio XML Training:
W3C Member
Stylus Studio® and DataDirect XQuery ™are products from DataDirect Technologies, is a registered trademark of Progress Software Corporation, in the U.S. and other countries. © 2004-2013 All Rights Reserved.