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Re: Are people really using Identity constraints specified in

• To: Patrick Yee <kcyee@c...>
• Subject: Re: Are people really using Identity constraints specified in XML schema?
• From: w3c@d...
• Date: Thu, 19 Aug 2004 07:57:13 -0400
• Cc: xml-dev@l...
• In-reply-to: <41242ACB.7000003@c...>
• References: <20040819024441.65568.qmail@w...> <41242ACB.7000003@c...>
• User-agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) 3.2.2 / FreeBSD-4.8

Patrick,

But that is the rub here, is it more complicated?

Frankly schema works for tiny small schemas with few if any
logical branches to the structure - but even there you run 
into difficulties - e.g. stock quote lookup, how tough is that?

Put in stock ticker symbol - get back quote.  Hmmm, but then the
ticker is related to exchange, and status of the company, so
could have prefix with colon separator, and so on - suddenly
a tiny little something - and schema really cannot provide 
enough validation already. Unless you add more fields, and have
prefix, exchange, ticker, name, but now you need rules - if I
enter name and exchange, but not prefix and ticker.... how can I 
use schema to check the right permutations for me?  But wait, I 
can declare varients of just the permutations of structure that
I want and label them accordingly.  Now I need a way for people
to know what context to use what structure construct.  Oh - how
I do that? (hint - you need context variables).

Then as soon as you get into significant information exchanges
with dozens of inter-related fields - oh my!

Schema really does have a very limited use profile.  That is the
way it was defined of course - they did start with a set of 
requirements.  Trouble is few if any people who are using schema
have bothered to read what the original design was intended to
do.  9 times out of 10 it ain't what people are now trying to
use schema for!

No surprises then that it is sub-optimal for their needs.

DW.

Quoting Patrick Yee <kcyee@c...>:

> On top of Schema checking, an even upper layer may offer checking of 
> semantics, too. This is, IMHO, a new concept which does not appear in 
> the TCP/IP stack. Needless to say, it is more complicated than Schema 
> checking.
> Regards, -Patrick
> 
> 
> Jimmy Zhang wrote:
> 
> >IP packets are much simpler to check because the head
> >fields are fixed in length.  CRC checking is typical,
> >and is equvalent to signature of SOAP. 
> >
> >Other checking, such as IP, port, process id, TCP flow
> >control etc, are less sophiscated than Schema.
> >
> >Deep content inspection offers to look at teh packet
> >content,but still is less complicated than Schema.
> >
> >--- costello@m... wrote:
> >
> >  
> >
> >>Hi Folks,
> >>
> >>I remember reading a long time ago a posting by
> >>David Megginson.  Paraphrasing, David said, "when
> >>dealing with XML you are working down at the bare
> >>metal".  
> >>
> >>Other technologies work down at the bare metal, such
> >>as TCP/IP.  Perhaps there are lessons to be learned
> >>there?  Certain TCP/IP packets are rejected as bad
> >>and the other packets are accepted and passed up to
> >>other layers, where those layers perform additional
> >>constraint checking.
> >>
> >>If we accept the conjecture that XML is down at the
> >>bare metal level, then perhaps the only constraint
> >>checking that should be done by an XML Schema is
> >>parallel to the kinds of checking that is done on
> >>TCP/IP packets.  All other constraint checking is
> >>passed up to other layers.
> >>
> >>Can someone characterize the kind of constraint
> >>checking that is done on TCP/IP packets?  What would
> >>be the parallel constraint checking in XML Schemas? 
> >>/Roger
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>    
> >>
> >-----------------------------------------------------------------
> >  
> >
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> >>
> >>    
> >>
> >
> >
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> 
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• References:
  • Re: RE: Are people really using Identity constraints specified in XML schema?
    • From: Jimmy Zhang <jzhang2004@s...>
  • Re: Are people really using Identity constraints specifiedin XML schema?
    • From: Patrick Yee <kcyee@c...>

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