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RE: XUL Compact Syntax Study Now Online - Is XML too ha rd for

• To: "'Bullard, Claude L (Len)'" <clbullar@i...>, 'Mike Fitzgerald' <mikefz@w...>, "'K. Ari Krupnikov'" <ari@c...>, 'xml-dev' <xml-dev@l...>
• Subject: RE: XUL Compact Syntax Study Now Online - Is XML too ha rd for Aunt Trudie?
• From: Tom Gaven <Tom.Gaven@e...>
• Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:32:13 -0400

>Ease can be bought at the price of general knowledge and skill.

In developing the RELAX NG compact syntax, James Clark and the rest 
of the RELAX NG gang have proved this statement to be incorrect.  AFAIK, the

RELAX NG compact syntax is just as feature-complete as the XML syntax, 
it's just, well.. compact.   

Indeed, as stated in the RELAX NG compact syntax spec[1] one of the goals
of the compact syntax is to:

"support all features of RELAX NG; it must be possible to translate 
a schema from the XML syntax to the compact syntax and back without 
losing significant information;
"

Also, with tools like RNV[2], and XMLDE[3], I never need to
see the RELAX NG XML syntax...  The only time I deal with the xml 
syntax is when I get foreign schemas, which I convert
over to the compact syntax using TRANG[4]. 

[1] http://relaxng.org/compact-20021121.html
[2] http://davidashen.net/rnv.html
[3] http://www.xmldistilled.com  
[4] http://www.thaiopensource.com/relaxng/trang.html




-----Original Message-----
From: Bullard, Claude L (Len) [mailto:clbullar@i...] 
Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 11:45 AM
To: 'Mike Fitzgerald'; 'K. Ari Krupnikov'; 'xml-dev'
Subject: RE:  XUL Compact Syntax Study Now Online - Is XML too ha
rd for Aunt Trudie?


It is like guitar tablature: easy to compose in and read for 
a guitar player, and therefore, it is useful.  On the other 
hand, one never learns to read music or understand traditional 
theory, so advanced guitar students are weaned off it as 
early as possible because what they learn in guitar tablature 
doesn't transfer to other musical domains easily, so one 
remains a guitar player and does not become a musician. A 
bit over the top, but the point is valid.  Ease can be 
bought at the price of general knowledge and skill.

Addictions impose a cost on society.  Compact syntaxes do 
as well.  If one starts there, one ends up in the same 
cul de sac as VRML was prior to X3D if that syntax is 
used in an instance.  Some VRMLers who have done quite 
a bit of VRML despise XML and aren't shy about saying it 
to the point of dissing X3D at every opportunity.

Syntax is not trivial.

len


From: Mike Fitzgerald [mailto:mikefz@w...]

In my experience, once you're familiar with RELAX NG, the compact syntax
becomes natural 
-- to the point that you don't want to live without it. In fact, I suspect
that any RNG 
aficionados would much prefer RNC and can't go back to the XML syntax for
one reason: It's 
much quicker to develop schemas by hand, once you have RNG in you back
pocket. And 
twice-blessed by Trang, which can translate RNC to DTD, RNG, or XML Schema,
you don't get 
yourself painted in a corner. Except there is one problem: At a given point
you are 
addicted. Strangely, though, all the RNC detox centers are empty. %^}

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