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Re: Noise-free Complex Systems

• To: "Bullard, Claude L (Len)" <clbullar@i...>
• Subject: Re: Noise-free Complex Systems
• From: Ian Graham <igraham@i...>
• Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 21:30:36 -0500 (EST)
• Cc: xml-dev@l...
• In-reply-to: <15725CF6AFE2F34DB8A5B4770B7334EE03F9F12C@h...>
• References: <15725CF6AFE2F34DB8A5B4770B7334EE03F9F12C@h...>
• Reply-to: Ian Graham <ian.graham@u...>

On Tue, 13 Jan 2004, Bullard, Claude L (Len) wrote:

> A troll of sorts but with a serious core:
>

A mathematical system can certainly be noise free and complex.  Also
adding noise to a system that is not complex can make it so.

However, both statements imply you have a completely specified
mathematical model for the system, within which you can test for complex
behavior. I would argue this is not true for XML, since the 'rules' of the
model are still changing, so the point is (in the long term) moot.

On the shorter term, a question might be: given the current XML model, are
there some properties of XML that are complex (with some definition of
complexity, such as divergence of semantics), or that becomes complex with
some change in a model parameter (such as system size). I think the answer
might be yes, but I don't think anyone's proven it.

A second question would be: can one prove that the 'model space' can
evolve such that the system transitions to non-complex behavior, or has
scaling behavior that is different (i.e. changes such that it takes a
'larger' system before things go complex).  I've no idea how you would
prove that, but it sure is an interesting question!

Ian
> Is this possible:
>
> Can a system or a system of systems be both
> complex and noise free?  What must be true
> of all of the components of the system for
> this to be the case?  By what properties
> can one measure this?  Are there complex
> systems that can not under any circumstances
> be noise free (beyond XML-Dev itself before
> the deconstructionists flame on)?
>
> Why I'm asking:
>
> This is related to Berners-Lee's recent
> post to the TAG list on the requirement
> for equality of 'chunks' of XML regardless
> of the system component handling the
> chunk.  In other words, what is needed
> for any XML part or whole to remain
> invariant across any current or future
> WWW system (the WWW is a system of
> systems)?
>
> We should consider this problem on XML-Dev.
>
> len
>
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• References:
  • Noise-free Complex Systems
    • From: "Bullard, Claude L (Len)" <clbullar@i...>

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